Should the USA Auto Industry be bailout?

Well that article has written France all over it. They are the only country in the whole of the EU (27 member states) that aggressively seek to bail out several companies. And by the way that does skew competition as do all the bail outs in the US and other places. The Opel bailout that is mentioned would involve a €1 billion guarantee which is just a preventive measure to keep it from potentially being dragged down by GM should it go bankrupt.

Add Rover/Jaguar to the list.

It’s worldwide. Give VW a few more days and they’ll be hat in hand too.

@Stupid 187905 wrote:

I wasn’t going to join, considering how most people “hate bailouts”, but some statements are out of line:

Union jobs like these make the middle class in this country. Your way of thinking is a slippery-slope and is exactly where the illegal immigration problem comes from. There are always people somewhere who will do the job for less, this doesn’t mean that people should get paid less. Ever wondered why McDonalds workers don’t have union? Ever wondered why McDonald employees often don’t speek English or don’t give 2 sh$ts? Do you want your car made by someone who doesn’t speak English and lacks basic education? And before you say it’s silly, you already eat chicken which has been processed by illegal immigrants, beef processed by illegal immigrants, vegetables picked by illegal immigrants, etc.

Unions are the only reason big corporations share a small percentage of the profits with its workers. And don’t be foolish to think that lower wages will result in lower prices for the consumers, no, it would simply mean more profit for the company and higher stock price. You want to know what the world looks like without unions? Just read on Industial England.

Also, don’t give me the “Asians make better cars” line. All asian cars are junk and I will never own an Asian car, period. I have owned European and US cars and I have NEVER been on the side of the road. With basic maintanance US cars will go a long way before major break-down. I have a ’96 Tahoe which I don’t think about selling, even though I don’t need it. This SUV has 200K+ miles and sits in the driveway collecting dust, but starts instantly, works without a problem and all I have done is change the alternator once, breaks, tires and fluids. Good luck doing so with Asian SUVs.

There are also many benefits to SUVs, especially if you live north of Kentucky. Where I reside currently, I would not trade my SUV for a car no matter what, I just need the SUV. And middle-class families have no problem driving gas-guzzlers, the problem is there are less and less middle-class families, thanks to the idea that corporations can pay their workers less and enjoy the profits from labor-cost cutting.

Finally, YES, give them the bail out and then some. I would much rather see my taxes going to hard working families and keeping their jobs preserved, so they can go in turn and buy products and services and keep the overall economy afloat, than buying a bunch of airplanes from Lockheed Martin, building bridges to nowehre, studying bears’ DNA and a whole set of “projects” with the money going to rich-people-getting-richer. I will pay my taxes regardless; my tax dollars will be spent regardless; I would rather see them getting spent on the well-being of hard-working people!

I think you are referring to me on that one, but I have to stand by it. I am pro union….to a point.
I have had union jobs all of my life and was on the board of I.A.T.S.E. for a few years and you have the right to your opine, and I have my right. I think unions were needed in the beginning of the labor movement, but I also think from top to bottom, just as management did, they all got greedy and yea, I think they are over paid. It doesnt mean they are over paid, it just means I THINK they are over paid, and guess what? There would be people lined up to do the work for 1/2 the wage, is that right? I dont know, but right or wrong, it’s a fact, there are plenty of people that would work that line for 20 bucks an hour.

I’d like to see a poll from all the americans, how many of you bought an auto that is considered to be an American auto. I vote no as to should they get a bail out and neither should Citibank and YES I have 2 chevys and one pontiac in my driveway.

On the Also, don’t give me the “Asians make better cars” line I didnt say that, but they do make a nice car, asians are hard working people and many of them put the well being of the company at the top of their list because they know, the simple premis, no company, no job. Where do you get off saying they make crap, many Americans own an Asian car, are they all stupid?

There would be people lined up to do the work for 1/2 the wage, is that right? I dont know, but right or wrong, it’s a fact, there are plenty of people that would work that line for 20 bucks an hour.

That’s true. And there are plenty of people who will work the line for $10 an hour, and a bunch of illegal immigrants will work it for $5, depending on the region. It all depends on the overall economy – driving wages like that just because “someone will do it for less” has led to the collapse of many industries and obviously will lead to the demise of the US auto industry as well. See, people are funny like that – they will work anything for peanuts just to feed their families.

And that’s where unions step in. It has been dosumented over and over again over many years that if employers are left to their own, they would have no problems working their employees to death for pennies a day. That’s why unions are formed – to help workers with their salaries, benefits and job security. I am saying this because I can live with someone blaming the management of the Big 3, the economy, lack of inovation, but I just don’t grasp the idea of “workers being unionized” as the problem for GM.

As far the Asian cars, it wasn’t directted at you, just a general expectation of what people would say. Asian cars are by no means more dependable than American or European cars. Just the marketing is so good, they have managed to convince many folks that Asian cars are better (it may have been true 15 years ago, but not today). Asian cars are generally a piece of junk made to last 5-6 years. I am yet to see someone on the road driving an old Honda (unless it’s a teenager strapped for cash). With Asian cars – it’s all perception, just like Mercedes.

i tried to write this up in a big long post yesterday. I think this says it much quicker

The problem is not the UAW or unions at all, the problem was that the Big 3 management adopted much of the Union’s view of the Employer/Employee relationship following WWII.

The Big 3, after WWII, was about lifetime employment and security, for both white collar and blue collar. The auto executives saw how well the idea worked creating a wealthy community with good schools and good services (detroit, flint, etc) and decided to offer a great job in return for labor peace. When the bottom fell out in the 1980’s they tried to slice jobs, humanely, trying to protect their workers from the devastation seen in the steel industry. Well unfortunately that’s continued until the last couple years when they’ve finally cut back on their long term pension liablities to the union.

The Big 3 management didn’t fight the UAW over the important issues back in the 1980s when the changes should have taken place while the Japanese were in a “voluntary” import quota. That’s why there is a “union” problem at the Big 3.