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Check this out:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/11/1533483.aspxSeems like Obama and many democrats seem to have this little idea that says it’s OK to do stuff like that.
You kind of have to visualize what they do here. A baby can be partially born, with the legs and arms out but NOT the head. so they take some tube and smash it through a baby’s skull to suck out the brains and the eyes and everything, all while it’s arms and legs are flailing around struggling in pain while this is happening…
So the democrats think that just because the head still in the womb, it’s ok…
Obama is going another step with it. A baby can be born completely, but it will just get thrown in the sink until it dies.
I don’t get it, so you can wash a baby and put it in clothes in five minutes and the democrats seem to think the baby is somehow different and killing it is justified 5 minutes before? Sure, you can replace an economy/money but not your own baby.
To me, those democratic views are sickening. It’s almost like saying that slavery is ok, yet 150 years ago, half the country thought it was a constitutional right and black people had no rights. Almost sounds like the democratic half of the country saying babies have no rights.
Funny how Obama has to carefully talk about it as if he’s trying to avoid describing the gruesome details and facts about it, as if he knows what he is saying is morally wrong. Essentially, you’ll never see Obama BOLDLY say his view with a straight face because he knows babies will die because of it. On the other hand, McCain can boldly give a straight quick answer, regardless of who he pisses off because his view is obviously the right one.
So thats why I’ll never vote democrat until they fix something so obviously out of whack.
As upsetting a procedure as abortion is, I can’t for the life of me understand people like Palin and the other pro lifers. They’ll expend much energy lobbying and campaigning to take women’s choice away to protect the lives of the unborn, then happily support carpet bombing in foreign countries that kills as many children and civilians as it does combatants. They’ll also sending American troops to their death and not care about the lack of good health care that will kill many US citizens who who can’t afford to pay for their health treatment. Unborn babies are sacred, even if they grow up to be Osama Bin Laden, but everyone else is fair game when it comes to an untimely death. You’re right when you say something’s out of whack…
Back in 52 this is nothing personal but are you a man or a women. If you are a women then I accept your right to express your view with regard to abortion. If you are a man then it’s a bit like the Taliban telling their women what to do or not to do.
IMO it isn’t an easy choice for a women to make (abortion) as it is something that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. But I support her right to make that choice.
Isn’t the USA supposed to be the land of the free. You don’t have to agree with someones choice but they have the right to make it.
Being a woman I can not believe that any woman would WANT to have an abortion. That is not the point. The point is that government should not be the one to make decisions that affect our bodies, gambling or anything else.
IMO anyone that believe that it’s ok to carry a gun, but are not pro-choice is a hypocrite.
hyp·o·crite
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelingsWhy, because guns kill more people than abortions do. So basically you protect the child while in the womb, but if a gunman comes in the hospital after the birth shooting and kills the baby, mom and other folks with his gun then that’s ok right?
I hate to be the guy who ruins all the fun with the facts, but it’s my purpose in life
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html (referenced by a couple of anti-choice sites)First of all, i doubt you’ll find very many doctors who would do a third term abortion without the mother’s life being at risk.
Second the facts are:
only 1.1% of abortions occur at or beyond 21 weeks, that is about 12,000 people a year
only .08% or about 1000 of 1.3 million abortions occur after 24 weeks.Third
The fact that people who want to control other people’s bodies assume that this late term procedure is a) common, b) done for the convenience of the patient and c) is done with little or no thought, just demonstrates how their religious beliefs view any fetus, at any point, in any condition is more entitled to rights than the Woman it is growing in.I believe it’s best said:
Keep your laws/religions off my body.I used to be staunchly Republican, up until W Bush’s first time elected. IMO, he wasn’t elected by the people then or the second time around.
I am against the war in the first place, and now I am fervently so.
We are spending billions rebuilding Iraq now and we haven’t even rebuilt New Orleans. We are propping up the Iraqi economy and ours has gone to hell in a hand basket.
We are not taking proper care of our soldiers during combat or after. We are not properly taking care of our people’s medical needs, including our veterans.
We were heaping debt upon debt upon debt, and now the time has come to pay the piper, we have nothing but debt and no one will lend us money anymore. So what to do? Print fake money of course, to prop up the dying economy. The US is more than broke, it is irrevocably in debt and it will take many years to climb oput of that hole. That is, if funds start being managed sensibly.
The awful abortion practice described above (and it is sickening) is only used when you choose the life of the mom or the child. Some women choose to sacrifice their life for that of the child and some don’t. Oftentimes it is the husband pushing for the abortion to save his wife’s life. Put yourself in such an unfortunate situation. You want to decide who will live and who will die? Not me. It’s their decision.
Anti choice people even want to prohibit the “morning after” pill. What nonsense is that? How many unwanted babies born to teenagers or raped women have these anti choice people adopted? How many abused children are the result?
Lets go back to pre abortion days. I had a teenage friend bleed to death after trying to abort with a knitting needle because she was too scared to tell her parents she was pregnant. Do we want that again? Do we want to make it possible to have black market abortions performed by anyone who sports a knitting needle and a quiet room?
Abortion is never an easy choice. Many women make a wrong one and regret it for the rest of their lives – whatever they choose. Many children are born into a living hell and many never find out what would happen. It’s never good.
The solution in most cases (except where wanted pregnancies go wrong and threaten the woman’s life) is education, prevention and taking the stigma off adoption. That’s how you make things better for people (including babies). Not by forcing people to raise unwanted children or by killing women in order to give birth to orphaned babies. Thats recycling human life at a record speed, the orphaned baby girl grows up with the same defect and then has to die giving birth to another orphaned baby girl who then has to die giving birth to another… Is that preservation of life or perpetuation of death?
These topics are very personal to the people who have to experience the situations in their own lives. It’s easy for you and me to sit in judgement and adhere to a principle, but it’s as wrong as can be.
The decision belongs with the affected people.
And for god’s sake, let’s not run our country into complete financial destruction. IF it can be saved. :sarcasm:
The summary of hard facts is 45 million Americans died from abortions according to that site that AmCan linked to. That’s almost as much as all the people killed in world war 2 and many times more than the Nazis killed in the holocaust.
Obviously I’m religious, but I can understand that many people don’t have any religious beliefs since the Bible states so many times that the “thing” inside a woman is a child, even before it’s born. By the Christian definition, an abortion is the same as killing a child. Again, many people don’t have a religion and that’s their choice so that probably doesn’t mean anything.
The issue is not trying to control what a woman does with their body. The thing many democrats don’t get is we’re dealing with two lives, not just the life of a woman. I don’t agree that a woman has the right to kill a child. Just like no one has the right to kill another person, unprovoked that is.
You can’t just kill a child because it’s “unwanted”. That’s what adoption and orphanages are for. Do you think someone has the right to walk into an orphanage and gas a building of children because they are “unwanted” or “have no future”? That’s what people do to animals in shelters, they put them down because they are “unwanted”. That’s what China does to control population, they kill off female children, which in my opinion, isn’t right.
Dominque is right about education, which is obviously something we need more of. Especially with parents telling their children not to kill their children in fear of them finding out about it. It’s a little different when a woman is going to die in birth, I can see that as one of the few exceptions since someone is going to die in the end. The woman is probably terrified about dying and wants to be safe so there has to be a choice. So if the baby was smart enough, I’m sure it would be just as terrified, but it’s not knowledgeable enough yet to understand.
That’s why there should be no question about it if no life is at risk, an abortion should be outlawed. Imagine if no one’s life is at stake, but you are chosen to die against your will anyways, like at a Nazi death camp. It’s the same thing with babies, only they aren’t smart enough to protest. They should be born and given away, especially in the case of rape. There is no reason for them to die, most of the time even the rapist doesn’t even get the death penalty over it.
Thats recycling human life at a record speed, the orphaned baby girl grows up with the same defect and then has to die giving birth to another orphaned baby girl who then has to die giving birth to another… Is that preservation of life or perpetuation of death?
That’s an interesting question. Do we really have the right to to end the life of a defected person? During the holocaust in world war 2, it wasn’t just Jews who died. Hitler ordered the deaths of “defected” people, which was a precursor to his “Final Solution” idea. Of course in the US, we do it for different reasons such as ending a potentially painful life, even though we never know if that life will be painful or not. Both reasonings come down to the same end result of death, where the person dying has no choice and that is not what democracy and “woman’s rights” is about, as the woman is not the one dying here.
The war is a whole different story, there are religious extremists, who again, think they have the right to kill American lives in 9/11. They made their choice to declare war on us and they are now receiving judgment for their actions. That’s another thing about the democrats, they don’t understand that when we kill woman and children in other countries, they are casualties of war, they were not the targets and it wasn’t intentional. Yet these muslims go and purposely bomb innocent people in suicide bombs, not aimed at the military troops, but woman and children. They intentionally killed hundreds of thousands more their own woman and children than we did in the war! They purposely killed their own people (similar to abortion) and they aimed to kill our own civilians on 9/11. Yet… the democrats have some reason to justify their actions as something we have no right to respond to.
Funny… how democrats are all “against the war” all the time, yet Bush had the highest presidential approval rating OF ALL TIME when we chose to go to war. I highly doubt that half of country (democrats) somehow was not part of that 90-95% that approved of Bush going to war in the days after 9/11 and the 75% with him when we went into Iraq:
People seem to forget that stuff, I’ve always supported the war. So many people get all caught up with the media hype and “follow the pack” and claim that they never supported any wars when things got bad (not being responsible). So here’s all this “Bush bashing” when 95% of you supported him going into the war. I clearly remember 9/11 and will never forget my feelings that day just like those in the generation who will never forget the attack on pearl harbor and the Nazi holocaust and standing up against murderers worldwide and helping people who are too weak to defend themselves. But, many democrats seem to easily forget stuff like that and hold money and economy over honor and life…
I’m religious, so I guess obviously I am going to say I choose God and life first over country and money every day. Unless you’ve walked through the valley of death, you may never deeply understand what life really is or what my reasoning is that no choice should ever be allowed to kill someone except in combat and life and death decisions.
@Back in 52′ 180567 wrote:
The war is a whole different story, there are religious extremists, who again, think they have the right to kill American lives in 9/11. They made their choice to declare war on us and they are now receiving judgment for their actions. That’s another thing about the democrats, they don’t understand that when we kill woman and children in other countries, they are casualties of war, they were not the targets and it wasn’t intentional. Yet these muslims go and purposely bomb innocent people in suicide bombs, not aimed at the military troops, but woman and children. They intentionally killed hundreds of thousands more their own woman and children than we did in the war! They purposely killed their own people (similar to abortion) and they aimed to kill our own civilians on 9/11. Yet… the democrats have some reason to justify their actions as something we have no right to respond to.
Funny… how democrats are all “against the war” all the time, yet Bush had the highest presidential approval rating OF ALL TIME when we chose to go to war. I highly doubt that half of country (democrats) somehow was not part of that 90-95% that approved of Bush going to war in the days after 9/11 and the 75% with him when we went into Iraq:
IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 – That is simply a fact. The reason people were united behind Bush at the time was because we trusted him to make wise decisions & everyone knew that something had to be done, primarily go into Afghanistan. But he squandered that trust & unity by taking us into a war (Iraq) that was unnecessary & reckless. Bush’s poll numbers have dropped as time passed, for countless reasons, but surely because people realized we were lied into the Iraq war. I personally support the war in Afghanistan & still do, but Bush took his eye off the ball by taking us into Iraq, depleting the necessary resources to fight an effective war there. Again, Iraq had NOTHING to do with the attacks on 9/11.
Who died and made you and the GOP in charge of others bodies? Back in 52, the point is that YOU nor the Government has the right to tell anyone what to do! Mind your own business and STOP judging people. That’s NOT YOUR job.
There are republicans that believe in abortion as well. Stop making it a polical issue and let it be an individual issue.
You are entitled to your opinion, but don’t demonize those that don’t hold the same belief as you.
Edit to add: It’s quite clear to the rational person that the war in iraq was a mistake and Obama/Biden should end it. The war in afgan is a legit one that needs to be amped up and won.
Bush had the highest presidential approval rating OF ALL TIME
that’s if you believe the poll.
Hi all, (52)
52 you’re an interesting outlook. On one hand you are against abortion but on the other supported the war.
First all, which war? we have several to choose.
Osama in afaganistan or the Iraq invasion?
And if you included all the other pies we’ve got our red white and blue thumb stuck in … well suffice to say we’ve got plenty to keep us busy.
I personally agree with Dom (dam you get smarter all the time GF lol … or is it that i am … hmmm)
we got money to bomb a country to beyond recognition and then rebuild it all shiny and new. But just the essentials of course, we’re not giving them anything more than just what they need to get by. Well where’s our shiny new essentials? Makes me so mad I need to take a break whenever I think about it.
………………………………………….
the abortion thing … that’s up to the women because anyway you slice it … it isn’t going to be a good thing.
I do offer this to think over:
If the religeous folks are so worried about the killing of babies whom I remind will not leave behind children who won’t have a father/mother, others that are dependent upon them …
Then why is it okay that so many deaths are the direct or indirect result of a religeous disagreement? I’m pretty sure one of the main commandments says don’t kill. Yet its done all the time. Some of the religeous folks like in Ireland fight and kill over whether you’re catholic or presbyterian. Don’t they both believe in the same God? I’m pretty sure they do.
I’m also nearly as sure it doesn’t say “don’t kill …unless your way of life is threatened” …
so how is it then justified to support any actions that you know if they are successful will end in someone’s death?
The bible i learned didn’t consider a fetus a life, only a prospective live. Penalty for terminating a pregnancy (say a pregnant woman falls down your stairway) was monetary, not criminal.
But the bible is a book interpreted differently by different sects, many of your fellow religious anti-choice folks think gambling is evil, but yet you think it’s ok (presumably) to promote. Maybe those folks should make both the medical and gambling laws in the US.
The US was designed to be a country were all religions can exist, some larger sects think this means they should harrass everyone else into adopting their religious beliefs as law. Well just like most christians won’t think of banning the sale of pork so the jews and muslims among them don’t have to shop in a store selling pork, we shouldn’t let one group force there interpretation of when life begin.
I appreciate that you are horrified about 45 million abortions, but i’m horrified that millions of americans think that an additional 1 million unwanted children being brought in to the US every year is less horrific.
I mean we aren’t farm animals, we shouldn’t breed just to put more individuals into the herd. Children should be created by willing, loving parents, otherwise that child is short changed from day 1.
Republicans want to dictate policy based on Religious beliefs.
How many abortions did the Republicans stop over the past eight years?
There hasn’t been an extreme, right wing administration as abusive of rights, American and otherwise, in the history of the United States as what we have had over the past eight years. Everyone agrees on this point (76% of Americans), and as far as I know abortions STILL occur in all fifty states.
Why would electing a slighty less radical and moderately senile extremist like McSame and Pandora change anything when Bush and Cheney didnt do anything?
More right wing extremist propoganda, and as usual total horse shit.
@Professor 180585 wrote:
How many abortions did the Republicans stop over the past eight years?
There hasn’t been an extreme, right wing administration as abusive of rights, American and otherwise, in the history of the United States as what we have had over the past eight years. Everyone agrees on this point (76% of Americans), and as far as I know abortions STILL occur in all fifty states.
Why would electing a slighty less radical and moderately senile extremist like McSame and Pandora change anything when Bush and Cheney didnt do anything?
More right wing extremist propoganda, and as usual total horse shit.
Aren’t two more member of the Supreme Court planning on retiring at some point in the next few years?
@slotplayer 180606 wrote:
Aren’t two more member of the Supreme Court planning on retiring at some point in the next few years?
Currently there are three Supreme Court Justices that may leave soon.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg – Health issues
David Hackett Souter – Wants to go back to New Hampshire
John Paul Stevens – Due to retireThere could be a huge change if McCain gets in. I’m for keeping our liberals and fewer conservatives.
