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I do not provide nor link to any sort of financial services on my websites. I can’t help feeling that if I am diligent about linking only to casinos that have publicly stated they will not accept U.S. players, I am abiding by the proposed bill as long as I include a U.S. disclaimer and am marketing outside the U.S. I will probably keep a file on my database containing those public statements in case I ever need to defend myself.
Affiliates cannot be held responsible for a casino accepting bets from a minor, that is the casino’s issue unless I knew the casino was allowing it – that would make me a knowing accomplice. If I am linking to casinos that will not accept American funds, then I cannot receive illegal funds and I have made a conscious effort to comply with the bill.
Today alone my sites have received hits from Sweden, Chile, South Africa, Canada, UK and India. Many got to my site from U.S. Google.
I think I am going to continue to provide links to any online casinos which I have proof of their intentions not to accept U.S. funds (perhaps providing the exact disclaimer in text next to the link), and I will add a U.S. disclaimer to each page of each website until this bill is either undone or specific affiliate limitations are added – or until I read a CAP statement that convinces me to stop…
f&p wrote:“The greatest danger here would seem to be with affiliates. Any American operator can be easily grabbed. This includes sites that don’t directly take bets, but do refer visitors to gaming sites. If the affiliate is paid for those referrals by receiving a share of the money wagered or lost, it would not be difficult to charge the affiliate with violating this law, under the theory of aiding and abetting. Being a knowing accomplice and sharing in the proceeds of a crime make the aider and abettor guilty of the crime itself. The federal government could also charge the affiliate with conspiracy to violate this new Act.”http://www.gamblingandthelaw.com/columns/2006_act.htm
Correct me if I’m wrong but would the US have the authority to demand from the offshore casinos their private information of their players? I know that it the casinos were located in the states they would have to provide to law enforcement at any level such information but offshore casinos are not in this jurisdiction and do not have to comply with our laws.
I think the issue is they are saying it is illegal to transact money for the purposes of internet gambling. This is why you see certain gaming sites saying they will stop accepting US customers when the bill is signed (becomes law). On top of that, the banks are going to comply with the law, lest they be held responsible legally. So, you have a situation where parties on all ends (sending/receiving/transferring) of the money aspect are signalling that these activities are now to be considered illegal. At least, those with current or future significant US interests.
I am sure there will be offshore non public ones that also understand the law the same way but will continue to try and go on as usual. But I bet not one of the people involved in those operations will take a chance of stepping foot into the US until the country becomes sane again. I wouldn’t if I were them.
Because what has changed is the fact there is a pretty clear law that is about to be signed making it illegal to transact money for the purposes of internet gambling. And since it is questionable if they would be able to extradite the online casino/poker room company personnel from another country, who do you think the next best thing will be as their target?
The affiliate will be seen as aiding & abetting these ‘crimes’. All it will take is one UC law enforcement officer clicking a link from your (US citizen) site to an offshore casino and getting a deposit through to prove the new crime. They will not need records from online casinos or poker rooms. They can get them right from the computer they are playing on. It will not be difficult to go from there to seizing your computer(s), bank records, etc. and seeing what an affiliate does for a living. And imo, if you are a rakeback type or give other monetary incentives you could even be seen as a principle.
The new crime is not that playing poker or another gamling game is illegal now; it is the transacting of money involving this type of gaming that is the crime now. It is the affiliate that operates from the US that will have all of the new heightened risk or any other person/entity that helps facilitate the process along. I actually think if they wanted to be pricks about it they could even go after the players themselves since they too will be involved in the transfer of money to internet gambling sites.
Just my two cents. I’m not a lawyer and even if I could afford it, would not even bother hiring one. Because, as I’ve said before in this thread, anyone who has lived here recently knows that a law can have a certain meaning by any attorney in this land but can be twisted by political judges, of which there are many now in our sytem. This new law just makes it a lot easier and is pretty clear to me, unlike the Wire Act. My only real question at this point is; can I get out of the business for a while and still receive the recurring income on the players referred prior to the law going into effect?
Hi all,
there is so much speculation and so many threads concerning this situation that frankly I’m lost as to what to do?
Has anyone recieved competent legal advice on what we can do or can’t do?
I posted about this in another thread, IMO the US government is not going to kick down our doors and take our websites. If they wanted to stop us they would send us a cease and desist order which would then give us 30-60 days to take our sites down.
The new law states they would first contact ISPs/host if illegal activities were identified, they wont be going after owners of the sites unless you are involved directly with financial transactions between the bank and the casino.
The saying goes something like 10% of all affiliates make up 90% of the earnings so IMO small fish dont have a thing to worry about; I dont even think the largest affiliates are atop the list. Come on why in the world would the big giant US government want to target little guys? I just dont see them going after a bunch of goldfish; they are much more interested in the sharks such as Sporting Bet, 888, Bodog, Party etc.
Has anyone recieved competent legal advice on what we can do or can’t do?
I don’t believe anyone here is posting from a legal advice standpoint, including myself.
I’m just watching what the other people/entities are doing that have something in common with me – they either also live in the US, have business here, or may in the future. Every single one of them is dropping US players.
All of the programs stating ‘business as usual’ (they all say the exact same words) are based in non US countries. I understand why it would be business as usual as they don’t have much more risk to themselves as they did before the law was passed. No problem. But I would appreciate the like minded affiliates on these message boards to not tell me I’m panicking, having ulterior motives, etc.
And believe me, I’m not a fan of Party Poker – wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them. But, I follow the money. If they are willing to take a huge hit in not accepting US players, I really don’t think they are doing it as some short term sinister strategy. They could make a lot more money printing up paper to sell into the market. If I’m not mistaken there are major US investors in Partygaming and that reason alone would be a good one as to why they are doing what they are.
Here are the closest things to credible I’ve read that may be important to US affiliates:
This first one, go out to the link and read the whole thing.
D. Many sites use what are called affiliates. Persons who are affiliates and live inside the US will now be subject to arrest and prosecution, particularly those who do not block financial transactions from the US.
http://www.pokerplayernewspaper.com/viewarticle.php?id=1481
This next one is from a law professor:
[The greatest danger here would seem to be with affiliates. Any American operator can be easily grabbed. This includes sites that don’t directly take bets, but do refer visitors to gaming sites. If the affiliate is paid for those referrals by receiving a share of the money wagered or lost, it would not be difficult to charge the affiliate with violating this law, under the theory of aiding and abetting. Being a knowing accomplice and sharing in the proceeds of a crime make the aider and abettor guilty of the crime itself. The federal government could also charge the affiliate with conspiracy to violate this new Act./QUOTE]
f&p wrote:D. Many sites use what are called affiliates. Persons who are affiliates and live inside the US will now be subject to arrest and prosecution, particularly those who do not block financial transactions from the US.
This next one is from a law professor:
[The greatest danger here would seem to be with affiliates. Any American operator can be easily grabbed. This includes sites that don’t directly take bets, but do refer visitors to gaming sites. If the affiliate is paid for those referrals by receiving a share of the money wagered or lost, it would not be difficult to charge the affiliate with violating this law, under the theory of aiding and abetting. Being a knowing accomplice and sharing in the proceeds of a crime make the aider and abettor guilty of the crime itself. The federal government could also charge the affiliate with conspiracy to violate this new Act.
I could be wrong, but I dont think any affiliate portal has the power or the facilities to accept or block financial transactions.
Many of us have mentioned the aiding and abetting, its a real threat; but many ways to combat it. At the end of the day if they want to come and get you they will.
I think you are bang on AXL . This is exactly what I could not figure out till today.
greek39
Personally, I think the prudent thing is to remove links when the law goes into effect, but to keep your sites up. If something changes, you can be nimble and re-enable quickly.
Once the bill actually becomes law, the legal eagles will come out in full force, and analyze things to death. I think we need to keep our eyes on the big players (888, PartyGaming, etc.) to see what they do and what they say. You can be that their legal team will remain very active, and that they were advised, to be on the safe side, to “abide by the law”, in the short-term.
I will not re-enable anything, until credible legal counsel says that I can, the law is challenged in the courts and reversed, or the WTO comes after the U.S. (not likely that they have the muscle to) and wins.
Until then, I’m working on my next affiliate venture — selling “Republicans Suck” bumper stickers.
