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Didn’t the term “paradigm shift” go out at the turn of the century.
:wink-winkAs for my vote, I’ll voice it now rather than wait:
1) Players for lifetime, NO 6 month rule (it makes no sense at all and goes against the whole reason for being in this business)
2) NO refer 1 player a month or else your commission gets cut to 20%
3) NO first deposit no payment rule, revenue share definitely needs to be part of the first deposit, for CPA it is understandable to have the second deposit ruleLets list the FACTS so we can see what is taking place:
1. RB changes the original contract to take back inactive players.
2. RB reduces payouts percentage to 20%.
3. RB does not pay out on first deposit thereby stealling from AFF.
4. RB increases it’s direct marketing campaign by sendining out their own magazines thereby sidestepping any aff payments.
5. RB has presence at SEO show during all this upheaval further showing their desire to be their own marketing company rather than using the AFFs that got them here.
6. RB increases direct mail campaign to players to get them under a house account now that the 6 month rule is in place.Add it up and RB wants to side step the affs and run their own marketing department. Take down your banners folks, and let’s see how well they do on our side of the fence.
Agree Islandman..
Islandmaan summed it up for me as well.
Zane, about your “paradigm shift” I have bad news for you.
If you do not “paradigm shift” your T&C back to the old terms, you are directly endangering your presence in at least one major market I know you have placed your future hopes on. Trust me on that – losing this market will flatten your ass so fast you will wish you had never even considered raping your “partners”. And of course I need not speak for the rest of your partners here who are letting you know what they think in no uncertain terms.
That is the “paradigm shift” YOU will have to make, rather than asking us to make.
You want us to consider helping out? Then:
1. Make some REASONABLE suggestions.
2. ASK us before DOING stuff.Oh and by the way – what Brian has said is true, I have heard this direct from the horse’s mouth as well.
Of course, where ever they go, we will not be far behind in nicely informing the media – whether it be magazines, broadcast, online – what they are getting into
Let me make this very clear. BelleRock will FAIL without the support of the affiliate partners that helped to make them successful. Make NO mistake about this.
A friend brought me to the casino affiliate programs about 6 or 7 years ago. He showed me his stats at this time and I saw an income of about $15.000. This gave me a lot of motivation to start this business too. When you are starting you are happy about each click you see in your traffic stats. And the hope gets high to get your first sign up and than your first real player.
As this needs a lot of time from the first website till the first real player and the first check you are really happy about each new player. This gives a lot of new motivation. When you won´t pay for players which are depositing only one time, you are going to take away motivation and maybe this affiliate stops before he brings more players to you.
So if you change the t&c´s from now on that´s at least the affiliates problem who signed up with you after 1st of August as he does not know about different t&c´s.
But to all affiliates who signed up with you before August 1 you are doing the following:
You are breaking contracts
You are breaking promises
and you are loosing reputation
And now in my opinion the most important point: Referring to your statements: You where going TWO STEPS FORWARD with your new terms and conditions, now you RETURN ONE STEP and await that everybody is happy that you have done so. Seen from your side that´s a clever tactic. Seen from my side I feel – sorry for that – messed arround! TWO STEPS BACK you have to do again!
And the following makes me sadden: I read for a long time in this forum and now I decided to post from time to time as well and the first big thing were I´m posting is this. Maybe it´s assuming from my side to write what I think as I´m new to this forum but it´s important for me as it concerns to me too.
At this point a very big thanks to that people who made this forum possible and hold it up on this high level
Well everything has been said here and I agree with all the affiliates so I don’t need to repeat anything more about their crappy new terms.
I promoted them as #1 since being in this biz and for them to slap me in the face and say that my hard work and advertising expenses means nothing to them is just beyond words. For me it really doesn’t matter what they do at this point because the trust factor is so far gone.
If they did go back and honor the t&c we agreed upon years ago then I might consider putting one or two of their properties back up for better exposure but I think it is time to just say farewell to them and move on. Not an easy thing to do because we did do the best with them but one has to draw the line of integrity somewhere.
Well, so far I have only heard any cold hard facts from Partnerlogic.
Fortune and Vegas Partners are just as quiet as Referback, maybe even more so.
I sure hope there will be actual news on all fronts next week.
Fortune and Vegas Partner have been in breach longer than Referback, and so far I have seen nothing concrete at all. And my stats at VP are way below par also.
Dom –
Referback was the FIRST to breach – get your facts straight.
so technically our warning lists should still have all the fortune, vp, and apparently RB casinos on them, is that correct?
its so damn confusing because you hear a program’s had a change of heart, so I rush to take them off the warning list because whether the casinos realize it or not; there is major damage done for every day they remain on that list.
I don’t have to tell most of you that it only takes one set of eyes, the wrong eyes, to see their casino on that warning list and that whale who was bringing in tens of thousands of dollars every month; will disappear.
the big boys will go first because they have the most to lose and it won’t matter whether the casino has paid that player large sums in the past; that player still ain’t gonna ignore the warnings because she is thinking to herself, … “I usually cash in around $10k … and if I hit a big win, I’m looking at a possible $50 to $100 grand. Do I really want to be playing someplace that has warnings about it plastered all over the net when that happens?”
Hell no. its just not worth the risk when there are other same-software casinos out there that are advertised as alternatives right under the warning lists. I don’t care how many magazines those casinos send out; I want to play at an honorable establishment that doesn’t have any skeletons in the closet.
that’s what the smart people will be saying to themselves. Spear is so right, this isn’t going to go well for any program that finds its casinos on the warning lists. we will make it a top priority to get all our peers to run these warning lists
I think I’m still in shock this has gone as far as it has; somebody has a lot to learn about the words integrity and honor. But that’s not the shocking thing. I can understand the fact that i may have gotten in with some people who not only don’t have any integrity or honor, but that also don’t even care about LOOKING like they’ve got any…
but surely there is somebody who can look at this strictly from financial point of view who is in a position of power …. that doesn’t have to go all the way to the bottom and roll around in it to know its there…
we’ve told you what will happen, and it will. why do we all need to lose?
its time to realize how much freaking money is going to be lost and stop this train wreck before it gets much uglier than the taste we’ve had so far.
geez.
bb1webs wrote:its so damn confusing because you hear a program’s had a change of heart, so I rush to take them off the warning list because whether the casinos realize it or not; there is major damage done for every day they remain on that list.Yep, me too, BB1. And I hate having acted in good faith and getting the silent treatment after that and no changes coming forth. They don’t have to be implemented before they are discussed – that is exactly the problem that happened the first time. Discussing the problem with a couple of people does not insure that all affiliates are going to accept them. People have different concerns, priorities and business models. Implementing major changes without input from your partners backfires, as we have seen now.
And of course you are right Spears.
I am sorry for being so damn uhhhh nevermind no I am not! :kisser:
As long as I have been in business if a partner or business contact of any kind treated me poorly I was sure to remember the experience when it came time to deal with them again; luckily in most of those cases it was a simple misunderstanding and partnerships were never truly harmed.
In this particular case we do not have a simple misunderstanding. Referback as unilaterally decided to screw us their partners over. I for one do not understand why so many people are still thinking about welcoming them back onto your sites. If you were making X $ with them I am confident that you can make that same X somewhere else and I am confident you wont have to worry about being shafted!
I also can not understand why this site which seems to be a very popular place for webmasters to meet is still listing the likes of Referback, Fortune Affiliates, Vegas Partner etc as Platinum Certified Programs? It seems that most of us are looking to see them in a darker light by placing them on blacklist yet this site introduces these programs as certified to unknowing newbie webmaters. That does not make much sense!
Lets make an example out of Referback and others, dont bend over and set yourself up for future mistreatments! If a program wishes to make stupid judgements like this in the future they will have this consider! Keep them on your blacklist and remove them from certified status as its not warranted!
axl wrote:In this particular case we do not have a simple misunderstanding. Referback as unilaterally decided to screw us their partners over. I for one do not understand why so many people are still thinking about welcoming them back onto your sites. If you were making X $ with them I am confident that you can make that same X somewhere else and I am confident you wont have to worry about being shafted!I also can not understand why this site which seems to be a very popular place for webmasters to meet is still listing the likes of Referback, Fortune Affiliates, Vegas Partner etc as Platinum Certified Programs? It seems that most of us are looking to see them in a darker light by placing them on blacklist yet this site introduces these programs as certified to unknowing newbie webmaters. That does not make much sense!
Lets make an example out of Referback and others, dont bend over and set yourself up for future mistreatments! If a program wishes to make stupid judgements like this in the future they will have this consider! Keep them on your blacklist and remove them from certified status as its not warranted!
In my opinion it´s really not ok what Referback has done with its terms. It seems there are only advantages for RB itself.
But on the opposite when you are blacklisting each cap immedeatly without discussion between affiliates and affiliate program there won´t be too much cap´s at the end. And when you are looking especially for serious cap´s with good reputation it decreases more.
And my definition of serious relates not only to the affiliates but also to the players. And (at least for me) RB fulfills this (yet in some degree).
They made a mistake and it needs to be talked / dicussed about it (yet). When RB says “no – this new t&c will not be changed again” it´s (once again in my opinion) still not the time to blacklist them as it´s probably still a serious cap – at least for that affiliates which are signing up now as these affiliates do not know about the old conditions and seem to agree to the new conditions than.
But I´m sure the damage, RB caused itself is big enough as they changed contracts single sided.
So if RB hangs on to their new condiotions I stop to promote them and this is all for me.
@ Referback
Maybe this is a compromise: For the old affiliates your old t&c´s. For new affiliates the new ones. Than you are able to find out if at least new affiliates are accepting these terms.
