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Quote:Guys, Bernie wasn’t talking about ripping off other people’s content. He was talking about using the software to do legal, ethical and unique things
Exactly… I tried to make that point by examining what a search engine really is. Pages and pages of content that really doesn’t belong to them. But its a very useful service. [essentially a scraper, though]
So what is the difference between a scraper site (blackhat) and an index/directory site (whitehat)? – to me the obvious answer to that is: is the final product useful to the end users?
Still wary about posting anyone elses site here. I certainly don’t want to be the catalyst for anyones site getting hacked because of someones emotional response to it.
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So I was hoping someone who has built one of these sites might be willing to help us understand a bit better. And probably they will be more willing when there is less aggression towards the subject.
blackhawk wrote:Still wary about posting anyone elses site here. I certainly don’t want to be the catalyst for anyones site getting hacked because of someones emotional response to it.—-
So I was hoping someone who has built one of these sites might be willing to help us understand a bit better. And probably they will be more willing when there is less aggression towards the subject.
Well put, Bernie. I think there is plenty of room for a rational, intelligent discussion of this subject.
Quote:You’re already swimming with sharks.Yep, so true. So I guess my wishes / question wasn’t precise enough. I was mainly hoping for a discussion about the software itself, its positive uses, and is negative uses. When I say I may employ the software myself I am of course refering to the positive uses.
For instance say over the last five years you have made a bunch of websites that are old but have good information maybe about casino software providers:
microgamingcasinos.com
playtechcasinos.com
rtgcasinos.com
bosscasinos.com
cryptocasinos.comLets also say you have sites about games like this:
blackjackrules.com
pokerrules.com
slotsstrategy.com
roulettegame.com
crapsgame.comYou can now make a NEW “gambling site” that is quite useful with the scraper software that collects and scrapes your own data and content from your old sites, and basically gives rise to a new bigger and more general website.
In addition to this of course you added some new “fresh” content to the site and then also use the scraper software to pull off the history of all those games from a public domain source such as Wikipedia. (not saying thats good SEO, just an example!)
Then you employ all the (working) SEO techniques you learned over the last five years to the new site.
You also now add a search function to the site and “whala!” – now that’s the implementation I’m speaking of – totally legal, useful, and potentially money making.
Dominique wrote:Guys, Bernie wasn’t talking about ripping off other people’s content.I’ve read the first post 3 more times, and I’m unable to read it any other way. It’s talking about scraping, and sites that scrape using a better layout.
Blackhawk wrote:So what is the difference between a scraper site (blackhat) and an index/directory site (whitehat)? – to me the obvious answer to that is: is the final product useful to the end users?I can make something useful to end users, but full of other people’s content. That doesn’t mean I have permission to use someone else’s content. To me, those are two different issues.
There are a lot of people who have problems with google and yahoo caching. Certainly, both are making money from the content of others in several ways. But, at least they obey robots.txt, so they will stop if I ask them to. DMOZ can add me, but they use their own descriptions, and there’s really no way to stop anyone from linking to you. (even if you wanted it for some reason, and there are reaons sometimes.)
And Bernie, just to make sure you know, I wasn’t questioning your intelligence when I said you needed a high level of sophistication to catch real cloaking. It was more like saying you need to know php to build a website in php. Cloaking often goes unnoticed. The engines don’t care so much (despite what they say). It’s harder for us to find it because we need to run around spoofing IPs to find it. An engine just needs to check with an IP not known to be registered to them (or not registered to them) and compare the results. Much easier on them than us.
(Edited because I attributed a quote to the wrong person. Fixed it.)
blackhawk wrote:You can now make a NEW “gambling site” that is quite useful with the scraper software that collects and scrapes your own data and content from your old sites, and basically gives rise to a new bigger and more general website.We were posting at the same time.
That, obviously hurts no one. But, I’d call it something like “automated content reorganization” instead of scraping. Scraping is already well defined, and often the content of others is included in the definition.
blackhawk wrote:Exactly… I tried to make that point by examining what a search engine really is. Pages and pages of content that really doesn’t belong to them. But its a very useful service. [essentially a scraper, though]So what is the difference between a scraper site (blackhat) and an index/directory site (whitehat)? – to me the obvious answer to that is: is the final product useful to the end users?
Still wary about posting anyone elses site here. I certainly don’t want to be the catalyst for anyones site getting hacked because of someones emotional response to it.
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So I was hoping someone who has built one of these sites might be willing to help us understand a bit better. And probably they will be more willing when there is less aggression towards the subject.
I think the difference would be the “scraped” content actually led you to the source which created it (whitehat) or used the scraped content to lead you to their resource (blackhat).
If you are talking about something like a directory to your own sites – thats what Games and Casino actually started out as. It was like a hub for a number of different sites/domains.
I eventually integrated the sites under the Games and Casino domain because I was worried about getting into trouble for interlinking my sites in that fashion.
Quote:That, obviously hurts no one. But, I’d call it something like “automated content reorganization” instead of scraping. Scraping is already well defined, and often the content of others is included in the definition.Ok so what is being said is that there are multiple uses for the same software: one use is “automating content reorganization” and the other is called “scraping”
What would you call this type of software? THAT is what I’m trying to talk about.
Here is some of the jewels we may have been able to discuss (I would like to hear about)
(a) what’s the best software
(b) what type of dynamics and information are u using to compile cool sites
(c) can we see some examples of these sites etc…And in the discussion of this software we could talk about “scraping” and this “content reorganization” (the two uses of it) but hopefully it would remain a professional conversation so that information was exchanged instead of people sniping about the “evil” of it all… (I mean guns are “bad” too if given to the criminially insane; and I want one for myself when they get here!!!)
But I don’t think we can have a fruitful conversation in such a charged enviornment. I did not mean to kindle a debate here. Content theft is wrong hands down – as the purchaser of multiple $1000s of dollars in articles and content, you don’t have to preach to me. I simply was trying to get a discussion going on about the software and it’s possible uses.
I would like to hear the discussion… As I build my site base larger and large, I would like to know what is out there and available as well.
If I could re-code something to work as a ‘hub’ for my sites, then that could definitely be useful I think.
kw
All you rocket scientists and it takes a kansas dirt farmer to point this out.
either that; or I just don’t get how a scraper works. (which now all of a sudden this seems too easy a scenario but I’m going to risk looking stupid anyway)
the difference my friends between a google and a scraper site; to put it in terms I can understand; is that google doesn’t make money by replacing your site with a copy of it …… minus any links which would get you credit for a sign up.
though perhaps oversimplified, is that incorrect?
That is correct. Google provides a valuable service to the sites it lists.
That actually is incorrrect. Google makes money from running PPC ads.
In a very real sense, Google does make money from searching through and displaying snippets of your content. That’s what the Google Adwords program is all about – making money from displaying others’ content.
Yes, they provide a valuable service too, but they’re still making money from it.
Nothing wrong with that.
Dominique wrote:That is correct. Google provides a valuable service to the sites it lists.…With my consent.
If I ask them not to index my site or not to cache my site, they honor that request.
