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Shane,
Thank you for the encouragement. It’s alway great to have someone tell you exactly what you want to hear. Duwayne has contacted me via email and gave me some suggestions that I will incorporate, however if a casino is offering a free spin or no deposit bonus then I would like to pass that along to my visitors, after all isn’t that what it is meant for? If the casino is going to frown upon this then I would highly recommend that they remove it from their promotions. Duwayne also state in his email “but please understand that it can be hard to convert bonus abusers”. My reply to that was as follows:
I never really understood the term “bonus abusers”, isn’t it human nature that if someone is offering something for free that any human being would want to receive it. If the casinos are going to offer a free incentive for a player to sign up and play at their casino, and the player takes them up on that offer but never deposits at that casino, does that make them a “bonus abuser”? I personally have taken advantage of every Microgaming “free bonus” out there and there are several casinos that I have deposited enough money into to be labeled a “high roller”, and there are others with which whom I only took advantage of the “free money” and never deposited for several different reasons. So, what am I, a “high roller” or a “bonus abuser”?I do appreciate your feedback but I do feel that my original question has not been answered by Referback as of yet.:tooconfus
Shane,
As a post note, I am very pleased with my affiliate manager and will personally give kudos to Duwayne.
Auditor,
I have no doubt that the Referback stats are correct and I do understand that the download number is “attempted” downloads where as some downloads my have not been completed. My issue is not with the download/signup ratio it is the signup/deposit ratio that has me concerned. Like I stated in my original post I would expect that out of 48 registrations that at least 1 person would have made a deposit.
For the record and for all that may be reading and replying to this post these stats are over a 3-4 month duration which in my opinion makes things even worse.
Also Auditor, you replied to Gooner as if you were referring to his stats, (Thanks Gooner for making the point in your post that it was I that originated the thread) and stated that you would be concerned if those were your stats but yet you didn’t offer any exclamation (sp). You also stated that you look forward to seeing how Referback compares to other programs and I had already stated in a previous post in this thread that Reward Affiliates brings in more depositing players from their free money offers. So, my question is, why so?:banger:
antoine wrote:The software tracks properly, they have the best software, a huge number of games, etc… but something scares away players after they have signed up.I could get 50 real depositors elsewhere and only get 1 at referback. I It’s a shame because the affiliate support is top notch. I just dont get it.
Thank you. :clapper: Perhaps if I had stated it as well as you have, I’d have an answer to my question.
kwblue wrote:I agree with Gooner here… 48 –> 0 is really bad. I wouldn’t expect that. I don’t think I would expect 1/3… However, I would expect at least 5-8 to deposit.I have to agree with kwblue here and not Gooner – 1/3 to 1/2 is not a realistic ratio for open to active accounts.
This ratio skews even further when you have so many brands offering $25 free with no deposit – especially with the recent drives promoting how big the jackpots are on certain games.
What you get is players grabbing 25 free at one casino – trying for the jackpot and then simply moving to the next brand and trying again.
This is why Lucky Nugget moved to a purchase offer recently, to:
a) improve those conversion (open to act)
b) improve purchases (intentional purchasing accounts vs bonus seekers)Nothing concrete yet but it’s a move (away from pure free cash) I expect to see happen more as we move into the fall when historically player acquisition tends to increase naturally.
Nauti Kitten wrote:Shane,Thank you for the encouragement. It’s alway great to have someone tell you exactly what you want to hear. Duwayne has contacted me via email and gave me some suggestions that I will incorporate, however if a casino is offering a free spin or no deposit bonus then I would like to pass that along to my visitors, after all isn’t that what it is meant for? If the casino is going to frown upon this then I would highly recommend that they remove it from their promotions. Duwayne also state in his email “but please understand that it can be hard to convert bonus abusers”. My reply to that was as follows:
I never really understood the term “bonus abusers”, isn’t it human nature that if someone is offering something for free that any human being would want to receive it. If the casinos are going to offer a free incentive for a player to sign up and play at their casino, and the player takes them up on that offer but never deposits at that casino, does that make them a “bonus abuser”? I personally have taken advantage of every Microgaming “free bonus” out there and there are several casinos that I have deposited enough money into to be labeled a “high roller”, and there are others with which whom I only took advantage of the “free money” and never deposited for several different reasons. So, what am I, a “high roller” or a “bonus abuser”?I do appreciate your feedback but I do feel that my original question has not been answered by Referback as of yet.:tooconfus
I’m with you there… it’s not bonus abuse a better term would be ‘advantage player’… those who bounce around looking only for free offers with litte or no intention of depositing.
The casinos certainly don’t frown on it, they do however balance up the intention of the offers – free offers are aimed at volume income, once that has been achieved and the conversion/retention folk have a pool to work on (less immediate cash but bigger pool to be converted over time) it is a good idea to move to a purchase offer (less players now but more immediate cash).
That said a sales person job only begins when the customer says NO
With that in mind we have been spending more time in contact with the Retention and Conversion teams of the brands to understand what goes into bringing the free spins and free money from ‘freeloader’ to ‘CashCow’!We will use this understanding to assist and manage the conversion of affiliate players as best we can.
Shane wrote:I have to agree with kwblue here and not Gooner – 1/3 to 1/2 is not a realistic ratio for open to active accounts ..… What you get is players grabbing 25 free at one casino – trying for the jackpot and then simply moving to the next brand and trying again.
That 1/3 to 1/2 is being achieved across our target casinos as a whole.
:satisfiedMind you I’m not promoting any casinos that give $25 cash up front without deposit … I can imagine that would defiantely skew the numbers rapidly towards zero conversions.
:nervous:TheGooner wrote:That 1/3 to 1/2 is being achieved across our target casinos as a whole.
:satisfiedMind you I’m not promoting any casinos that give $25 cash up front without deposit … I can imagine that would defiantely skew the numbers rapidly towards zero conversions.
:nervous:It’s a fine balance – free spins and $25 free is great as long as it’s marketed alongside lucrative purchase promotions and does not dominate the page.
Pages named ‘100% No Deposit Bonuses’ and so on make me nervous as the tendency is to focus purely on free (no deposit) bonuses and it ‘teaches’ players to chase the big win without any financial buy in from their side.
ReferBacks partner casinos will be moving out the no deposit space (ala Lucky Nugget’s new offer) very shortly… already with Lucky Nugget’s move to a purchase offer we are seeing improved netwin lines for our affiliates.
Shane wrote:they do however balance up the intention of the offers – free offers are aimed at volume income, once that has been achieved and the conversion/retention folk have a pool to work on (less immediate cash but bigger pool to be converted over time) it is a good idea to move to a purchase offer (less players now but more immediate cash).This makes sense to me, and is what I see working well.
Nauti Kitten wrote:I never really understood the term “bonus abusers”, isn’t it human nature that if someone is offering something for free that any human being would want to receive it. Bonus abusers = offering a bonus and calling those that play only to win – “bonus abusers”, after stealing their winnings, even though they met the terms to the letter.anything “FREE” or too good to be true, always has an angle and a catch. Bounty bonus hunters don’t read the T/C’s. If they did, they wouldn’t complain to the casinos when they can’t cash in their winnings. These hunters also, and I can guarantee this will go to another computer, change ISP’s, and so on, download the casino again to attempt at getting the free money for the 2nd time. Some get away w/ it and some do not.
Every month I read where wager profits is the first to pay – I had 279 new players over the last 2 months on just one of their 2 casino’s. NO one deposited. But then, that’s what I promoted.
In the business sense, Shane hit it dead on – when they say “no” as in the salesman analogy is when you try harder.
Not to go into much detail but past years looking at the archive and just the first 6 months – over 65K I made in commission. The first 6 months of this year, $107.00
Just as in wager share models, it all depends on the type of player. Bonus seekers will always play on your dime. I would research as to what kind of visitors you’re getting or what method of advertising. Having over 170 downloads to me anyway for one month is alot and if I remember correctly you saying you’re new at this. I selected from archive a few months from last year and almost 10,000 visitors – not quite 2% downloads, 20% of those opens a real account and 40% deposits. The 20 players total that placed a deposit average roughly $5K each for those few months
Number of visits: 9,860
Number of downloads: 134
Number of Real Accounts: 26
Number of NEW Purchasing Accounts: 9
Level 1 Casino commision for date range: 26,999
Total Casino accounts purchasing in date range: 20For the fall, I will be trying to stay away from free offers and try to get my whales back and those serious gamblers. My depositor(s) from last month appear to haven’t even played yet. If they can deposit and take their time before starting to play, it’s just as possible your sign ups will place a deposit in the next month or two
Part of the problem is their crappy download helper. The way it looks when you download is that you have to either already have an account or register while downloading. So the player registers, but once the casino is installed, they decide they don’t like the casino. Hence many registrations but few depositors. Do like almost all other microgaming casinos and get rid of that registration page. It makes more sense to do like Fortune does and require an email address to download.
voovoo wrote:These hunters also, and I can guarantee this will go to another computer, change ISP’s, and so on, download the casino again to attempt at getting the free money for the 2nd time. Some get away w/ it and some do not.
Sadly that’s pretty accurate… :slapface:For the fall, I will be trying to stay away from free offers and try to get my whales back and those serious gamblers.
Great idea VooVoo… please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you gear up for the fall drive :Nod:
kidd75219 wrote:Part of the problem is their crappy download helper. The way it looks when you download … require an email address to download.
Thanks for your honesty Kidd75219 – I have pushed this feedback to the Heads of Marketing, Retention and overall General Management of the casinos.I know there are processes in pipeline to simply and expediate the registration process – as I get more details I will definitely post it on CAP!
These hunters also, and I can guarantee this will go to another computer, change ISP’s, and so on, download the casino again to attempt at getting the free money for the 2nd time. Some get away w/ it and some do not
This is a fraudster.
# A fraudster is a fraudster. Whether they charge back, use dodgy details, proxy isp’s, etc etc. All alleged “fraudsters” funds (including deposits) should be confiscated and sent to the police/gambling commission/regulatory authority/gamcare/whatever and the perpetrator(s) taken to court.
## Advantage players, who meet the terms, are customers. If they are not profitable, ban them after paying up the account. If they are profitable as a whole, keep them on the database, “work” them over time – whatever.
### Stop offering bonuses – advertising them.
& so on.
I certainly didn’t mean to open a can of worms here I was only curious as to why I didn’t have any depositing players with Referback and was comparing them to another affiliate program where I had plenty. I was promoting free money from both the programs and couldn’t understand why one would convert and the other didn’t. Everyone here has been a great deal of help and it was not my intention to slam Referback as some might have taken it.
:satisfied NEWS FLASH – I just checked my stats at Referback and suprisingly enough (although I didn’t change anything on my site) Lucky Nugget has had 1-Attempted Download
1-Registration
1-Depositing PlayerYeah, I have generated my first commission with Referback. 100:100 ratio. That’s what I’m talking about. Thanks Duwayne & Shane for hearing me out.
