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Gamtrak has her moderator rights back — her PM rights were never disabled so I’m not sure how that ended up being the case. If these powers are abused (i.e. we had an issue on PAP where a mod edited Lou’s post), they will be permanently taken away.
Antoine, please don’t fall into this trap of lies. Sometimes the adverse party composing more and more lies in public is helpful and we’re simply allowing it to continue, for now. You will see an official response as soon as it legally makes sense and it will cover most, if not all allegations.
I posted this thread to keep the discussions ongoing and I certainly encourage everyone to do so.
Warren
Thank you Warren I appreciate that. We are cool now. :hattip:
@antoine 198572 wrote:
Amazing how many people will be your friend when times are good but when times are bad its bye bye.
Well fuck that shit. I’m with Lou. He’s made a lot of mistakes but he is not the only who just stole 2 million dollars.
Where’s the money Warren? I thought this post was about the truth so how about you unban the founder so he can post the truth or maybe you should post it yourself.
I think most people just want to see him acknowledge that he infact made some mistakes and is going to work on making things right again with the community. Even at this stage in the game, I have seen no effort whatsoever from him to apologize and I am starting to wonder if he is man enough to do so. When he starts being fair with everyone else, I think people will start being fair with him. Right now it looks like he either doesn’t give a shit about what he has done or he doesn’t think he has done anything wrong, both not good.
Here is #8 in his email:
Moving forward its my intention to regain control of my comapny and to have Warren Jolly removed from any managemnt position within our company or restricted from doing any further damage to CAP or Affiliate Media Inc. When that occurs I will lower all certification fees to a more reasonable level and work towards repairing any damaged relationships we have with our present and former certified partners.
Nowhere in that email does he say one thing about the way he has treated the community, he is only interested in repairing the money tree that is currently damaged. Perhaps he needs to be reminded for the 100th time in this thread that CAP is nothing without affiliates, so man up and work on building that relationship again and he may just find everything else will work itself out. I just don’t see what is so damn hard about saying “I’m sorry guys, I fcked up”. People want to forgive but he is not making it a 2 way street at all. Shit we all make mistakes.
I don’t know the whole story about the $2Mil so I am not going to comment on that.
What a joke – CAP is a commercial business, charging large amounts of money. This vertical is no different from the rest, and no one should make the mistake of thinking that this site is NOT about making money. In any other industry, you would tolerate this type of underhanded smoke and mirrors nonsense – and I am shocked that operators would allow this nonsense to carry on while paying their annual fees.
This business (CAP) can and will carry on without either of the jokers that are currently sitting at the top, and what a clown effort we are seeing it to be. Both should take a step back from any public facing operations, we are ALL in the business of marketing and monetisation of Joe public , and these two clowns are killing off the tattered remains of whatever reputation CAP has built up.
If you server at McDonalds carried on behind the counter like this, you would walk out, so why should anyone accept it here ~?
CLOWN EFFORT
erin_at_betus;198558 wrote:As I mentioned previously I have nothing but love for my industry peers and I can’t help but wonder why we can all manage to get along famously, even with billions in affiliate revenue on the table, yet these groups can’t seem to chalk indifference up to healthy competition. I for one would like assurance that no such nonsense will take place at future events. I do not want to take sides, I do not wish to attend secret meetings, I do not want to pledge allegiance to one group over the other I just wish to do business, meet new affiliates, hug old friends and get a positive ROI from the absorbinate amount of money we spend to support and attend these events.Thank you.
Erin,
A great post and your thoughts I share entirely. What a fiasco. Will CAP survive? I wonder…
I think some thought should be put into a structure that has sustainability. There has always been a strange inherent conflict in having an organisation that makes so much money from programs claiming to be the watchdog on these very same programs! And I wonder if the shows are not another anomaly?
Surely a professionally run, well funded organisation that represents affiliates on a NON-PROFIT basis has a place. That doesnt mean to say it shouldnt have teeth – good funding is important. But it should be totally transparent. Its officers should have no conflit of interest. Its accounts should be published and the fees published and fair. Any profits should be returned to members somehow (perhaps in reduced fees in subsequent years).
My two cents worth. I am really on the periphery of this all so plse dont shout too loud if this is all nonsense!
BestCasinoPartner;198368 wrote:Gentlemen,With all due respect this type of behavior does nothing to help those (like ourselves) who pay good money to be well represented on your boards, not to mention the people who rely on the information posted here. Last Friday AffiliateGuardDog.com reported that both BestCasinoPartner.com and CasinoBlasters.com removed a hotly-debated term from their terms and conditions. There was no mention of this change on CAP. One can only assume that this infighting is taking much needed attention away from the business at hand. This is irresponsible to say the least and disrespectful to the community that has backed your efforts all these years. As self-proclaimed “watchdogs” for the affiliate and gambling community you have responsibilities here that go beyond soliciting support from your members. You have the opportunity to serve a very important purpose for operators and affiliates alike but your efforts to meet this goal appear to have gone woefully off-track in recent months. We strongly encourage you to clean up your act and focus instead on reclaiming the loyalty and trust of your members.
The BestCasinoPartner Team
We are in for this post,
The actions here are not serving our interest.Shay
This whole situation has turned out to be an absolute joke. I have been on and off this forum as an operator, affiliate manager and affiliate for over 5 years. Over that time, I have seem some disgraceful stuff go on by some of the bigger contributors to this forum.
The worst I saw (and it made me sick) was when all the shit blew up in the US and these large affiliates made a huge noise about it being the end of the world and that they were selling their sites and getting out. What followed was a flood of smaller affiliates quickly putting their sites up for sale for next to nothing – purchased by the very same affiliates that were sprouting the doom and gloom.
Let’s be honest, it’s always been about the money. These guys are certainly not about the friendship. I’ve seen it myself – they don’t want to know you unless you have the potential to wave a big wad of cash in their faces.
At the same time, they have never treated their paying clients with respect – and this is just another example of this.
See ya CAP – the events were the best part and you guys weren’t even running them at the end. :flush:
Originally Posted by BestCasinoPartner
Gentlemen,With all due respect this type of behavior does nothing to help those (like ourselves) who pay good money to be well represented on your boards, not to mention the people who rely on the information posted here. Last Friday AffiliateGuardDog.com reported that both BestCasinoPartner.com and CasinoBlasters.com removed a hotly-debated term from their terms and conditions. There was no mention of this change on CAP. One can only assume that this infighting is taking much needed attention away from the business at hand. This is irresponsible to say the least and disrespectful to the community that has backed your efforts all these years. As self-proclaimed “watchdogs” for the affiliate and gambling community you have responsibilities here that go beyond soliciting support from your members. You have the opportunity to serve a very important purpose for operators and affiliates alike but your efforts to meet this goal appear to have gone woefully off-track in recent months. We strongly encourage you to clean up your act and focus instead on reclaiming the loyalty and trust of your members.
The BestCasinoPartner Team
Actually it was mentioned in your forum and in two threads, but it is getting buried in all the drama.
I agree very much with the rest of the post too. Being a watchdog for affiliates is IMO one of the most important aspects of CAP.
Guys (and I mean operators and affiliates alike) CAP always was and still is what we make it. For operators, after the dust settles, this drama will likely result in lower fees and more exposure for the buck. For affiliates, it will mean free speech and a place to express themselves more fully.
All the resources are still here.
I have always been puzzled as to how business partners can get into such rifts that end up destroying the business. Look at Hyve, as an example in our own industry. The software rocked, it had such potential and it died due to infighting.
Well, this is a bit different, because CAP is not a product, it is based on living, breathing people with their own opinions and motivations.
The community does not equal the business. The community could pack up tomorrow and move, together or scattered. If that happens, there is no business.
CAP has reach though, that would be difficult to rebuild, Google etc love CAP. CAP has the hundreds of threads that give affiliates insight into the management of the various programs. CAP has a bunch of great tools that we can all use.
A while ago I started a thread about bannings, I think these were an indication that things were going south. When you have to worry about people speaking freely, something is wrong.
Every message board has some bannings, but lately CAP went overboard with this and not because people attacked others, because of business reasons.
That affects the integrity of a message board in a negative way, and people start leaving because – it is just not right.
I also started a thread about certification and asked people to input their thoughts – perhaps the future management will dig it up and give some serious thought to people’s opinions.
Meanwhile it’s a waiting game it seems… and I reserve opinions until I know more.
Hi Dominique
I think CAP *is* a product. It has a fee that you have to pay to be certified as well as a brand within the industry.
Its not that much different to a giant online newspaper (albeit about gaming) whereby the users can comment on issues and the merchants have to pay to advertise. Its just that with CAP the the user comments are called Threads and the advertising monies are called Certification.
Just my thoughts.
Well, yes, I see what you are saying.
It gets convoluted though lol.
The readers are also the writers…
Without the readers and writers, there is no paper and no advertising can be sold.
If there are readers and writers, the advertisers will come.
Too much damage has already been done. If i was an affiliate program, i would not renew my certification and instead find other ways to recruite affiliates.
The fiasco does not look like it will end anytime soon.
Banning the professor is not the right thing to do either.
Ill be around cause there is alot of valuable information that is shared between fellow affiliates on this forum.
Yes you do, Simon and I coudn’t agree with you more. Myself and the rest of the team here have often felt like it’s a consistently uphill battle to glean value from the money we invest in sponsoring and attending events.
That hill’s been getting steeper year to year.
I’ve not got a side to take but want to express that I’m deeply concerned a) with affiliates having the community and service they’ve come to expect and deserve, and b) with operators truly getting their money’s worth from sponsorship and event participation.
Those are the key issues that MUST be addressed as we wait for the other shoe to drop.
I say…Bring the value-back!
I’d love to see it become affordable again for honest and hard-working operators and programmes to be able to expose their brands and offers to the affiliate community at large, such that they still have some change left over to budget toward affiliate-centric promotions
MJ
Simoneaton;198429 wrote:From an operator and sponsored listing standpoint I am sickened that some of the money the programs paid to sponsor this forum is going to waste as the focus right now is more on in-house bickering rather than discussing conversions, top performers and other more relevant factors to affiliates.There are 99 programs listed within the CAP certified programs section, with each paying on average $40,000 a year (this is a personal estimate and can be out a little). If you multiply 40kx99 it gives you a sweet $4 million so today alone the merchants combined have lost over $10,000 in sponsorship money. I am sure there are some factors of greed involved in this argument which is hurtful as at the end of the day all the certified programs signed up as a CAP certified program to show that they are legite and listed on a unbias affiliate forum.
It would be great for CAP to revert to the old days (4 years back) when getting a program listed on here was not breaking the bank, you got bang for your buck and affiliates actually visited your program to learn more as the professor and team enjoyed what they did and wanted to see us succeed. Right now being listed on CAP is comparable to being a needle in a haystack as it is hard to attract the attention of an affiliate when you are bundled between 98 other listings.
Sorry for bringing these points up but I talk for all the certified programs here.
Well the first I heard about ‘something’ going on was a message from Lou on FaceBook this morning saying his ’email had been hijacked’ . What a shocker!
Perhaps the reason I don’t post so often is because I don’t really like to get involved in stuff that’s ‘none of my business’.. This sounds to me like it’s between them to sort out.
Now I’ve read through this topic I wish I could have the hour or so of time I just wasted!
I’ve had great fun and enjoyed CAP a lot but well, if I was paying for this I’d be VERY disappointed. Why not lock this issue and just publish the ‘end result’ between the parties involved and in the mean time get CAP back on track.
I saw a few people posted about ‘money’ / mainly ‘GREED’ being the most likely problem here and I suspect that is the case.
For now I think I’ll reduce my CAP visits to maybe once a month and hopefully next time all this crap will be done and dusted – because personally I have ZERO interest in reading this kind of stuff about ‘who stole whose millions’ …
Maybe when you’ve blown all the money with the Lawyers, you can sell the film-rights to the story – if it’s really that interesting!
Happy Marketing All
PS. If people are deleting / banning then feel free to add mine as I won’t be missing much if this is how things are getting)..
In the interest of getting the community back on track, I am issuing a public statement in a new thread and locking this one.
Please feel free to comment there.
