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Hi Sirius,
Firstly, a merger was proposed but has been slow in achieving closure due to market influences, and as such Referback and Trident Share are still two different programs with their own individual processes and will continue to operate as such for the immediate future.
Thus I am not able to assist you in regards to your Trident Share query.
The charge back on your account was funds returned to a problem gambler. The players accounts were closed and Belle Rock decided to refund the purchases made due to the players condition. The actual amount was 13,180.00 and 2,636.00 is the percentage attributed to your account.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Best regards,
Wayne@Wayne 144504 wrote:
Hi Sirius,
Firstly, a merger was proposed but has been slow in achieving closure due to market influences, and as such Referback and Trident Share are still two different programs with their own individual processes and will continue to operate as such for the immediate future.
Thus I am not able to assist you in regards to your Trident Share query.
The charge back on your account was funds returned to a problem gambler. The players accounts were closed and Belle Rock decided to refund the purchases made due to the players condition. The actual amount was 13,180.00 and 2,636.00 is the percentage attributed to your account.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Best regards,
WayneOK this gets better. How do you propose I get an answer from your parent company about Trident Share who seem to have disappeared as they don’t reply to emails any more. Also, can you give me some information about this player at all by email as I have none (the casino, date joined etc I’m not even asking for all the details i’d get from the trident share stats)? Also, it is strange you say it was 20% of the amount given to the player but there was $200 earlier in fraud reversals until this morning and only another 2436 or so now so how do you explain that (although I can guess what your explanation will be)?
Have you tried reaching trident via the site? I haven’t had any problems, although I rarely have cause to contact them.
I also am not at all unhappy with referback stats, I like the breakdown by country particularly and the rest gives me enough to go by.
I guess everyone is looking for something different in stats, I very much want the traffic and country stats.
@Wayne 144504 wrote:
The charge back on your account was funds returned to a problem gambler. The players accounts were closed and Belle Rock decided to refund the purchases made due to the players condition. The actual amount was 13,180.00 and 2,636.00 is the percentage attributed to your account.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Best regards,
WayneAs I already explained, I need more information on this. In fact, I would like information on every player. I don’t care what format it is in as long as it’s all there. It’s frustrating that I can see lots of information with Trident but with referback I can’t even see the number of players playing each month or the amount of deposits. I don’t know when players started playing and when they stopped. If you could send me this information I would have a lot more trust in referback. The referback responses here have not impressed me and I still think it is highly coincidental that I’ve recieved effectively over $13k in chargebacks just when I was criticising your company. Also, most programs would put the whole figure as a negative in Gross revenue whereas it looks lower than it really is on yours (in fairness, it would be a bit higher the other way of doing it as you only add 20% but the commission is higher).
It is also debatable whether this should be added as fraud. Player wins would get zeroed at the end of each month but not fraud reversals. Also, it is hard to believe your explanation when you give such a precise figure for the amount of $2636 (20% of $13180) when in fact that wasn’t the amount added as I had $200 there for quite a while before. I can guess that you will say you first offered $1000 and then gave him another $12180!! What you have said so far hasn’t made sense and seems wrong, otherwise. Obviously I’m very doubtful of most of the responses here and I don’t even know if it’s because you can’t be bothered as I’m not even getting the facts about when Belle Rock Gaming changed to Entertainment or the exact time that the less popular brands closed.
I accept your casinos are among the best which is why they are on my site but obviously I’m not happy with referback as they don’t give the info they should to be as transparent as they could be. I don’t see how the revenue can be so high some months and then (at least since August after Ohio closures) be so low. I doubt most of my active players were from Ohio when there were over 30 more states from US alone that are allowed to play!
To be honest, I never really care how much revenue there is each month but quite a lot of things haven’t made sense or made me wonder what was going on at referback and the responses haven’t really helped. When I started the site, I hardly had any ads and I was just going to provide information. I’m still number one for the word bellerock in google so I get regular traffic direct to the old belle rock topic on the forum. As I’m reorganising and programming the forum at the moment, I haven’t really done any promoting. In fact I haven’t even sent out any emails to my forum members for over 2 years as the focus isn’t to make lots of money. I don’t even swap links except once or twice (the front page links I have always had to casinomeister etc. were not reciprocated and I only the other day stopped sending him pagerank) and I noticed my pagerank go from 4 to 1 recently but it doesn’t seem to affect the search results. So if I do start promoting more, I will have to think hard about who it will be for. I really need the information I requested above.
Regarding the problem gambler, I’ve heard rumours of casinos refunding players money before but have never seen an actual example in practice as it is obviously open to fraud. A few years ago a player at a Crypto site, William Hill, wanted my help in getting some money back. She sent me her play log and was obviously addicted. I was trying to get some of the money back for her but had no luck at all. The thing is that the main advantage online casinos have over the land casinos is that they have the opportunity of being able to spot these compulsive gambling patterns well before it becomes a problem (although it’s not an exact science) but I’ve not heard of any sort of automatic check like that being implemented at casinos. The casinos would then at least be able to contact the player personally if they spot a potential problem.
I am “siriously” confused.
Didn’t Shane answer your main question here:
“… closes of accounts occurred for the current brands just after commission disappeared”
This has a two fold answer:
1. you had some accounts closed for various reasons. Please refer to Cobus’s emails as the player data he gave is correct.
2. after a very long campaign to move players off Home and Showdown we have finally shut off the gaming servers. Those few players who were still active were each called personally and assisted with accounts at RiverBelle if the did not already have one.Important:
i] All players migrated in this manner still track to the affiliate who owns them at customer level.
ii] Any inactive players who reactivate at new brands will also belong to the affiliate because of the customer rule.I am really not quite sure what it is that got you going, but you really should be emailing Cobus for more information as player details are private and certainly do not belong on a public forum.
Referback has proven to be an honest and forthright program for years. It is one of the pillars of the industry. I hardly think that they would suddenly start cheating us out of small amounts of money.
So my recommendation is that you get back with Cobus, where you can get actual detailed answers unlike here on a public message board, where everything has to stay general.
I was trying for quite a while to get answers from Cobus before posting here but if you read the thread you’ll see his answers weren’t very useful at best. I am here requesting the details on players be emailed to me and I want full details now as I’m fed up with asking specific questions and not getting the answers. You’ll notice there is not a response to my last message either.
Well, Shane, who is the person usually answering the forum, is on vacation, so you will likely not hear anything here til monday.
Wayne was trying to fill in, and they are in a different time zone so have gone home for the weekend.
I’ve sent Cobus an email yet again (quoted below) asking for details. Hopefully it will be the end of the matter after these details are sent to me.
Quote:I’ve had lots of questionable answers from people at
referback (including Shane and Wayne) so I’m making a
very reasonable request to make everything clear to
me. I would like these details of every player that’s
ever joined through me: Date they joined, date the
first played, date last played, any chargebacks and
when and also reason for account closure if
applicable. I hope that part isn’t too difficult. I
realise there would be a lot of players but hopefully
the main part can be a simple database query (I don’t
care what format it is in as long as the info is
there).They should have an identifying ID (i.e. account
number with some digits removed). Then by month: which
of those players played and, attached to each player,
their deposit, wagers, return and cashouts that month.
Again, the database query should be pretty simple for
each month, eg. in SQL to get the list of player
details (for each player) from Feb 2007 the query
would be something like: “select player,
sum(deposits), sum(wagers), sum(return), sum(cashouts)
where affiliate=’aff82426′ and date BETWEEN
‘2007-02-01’ and ‘2007-03-01’ GROUP BY player”. Then
each row returned will contain the player and the
details I want. The past 24 months would be fine but
I’d like more if possible. Again, I don’t care what
format it is in as long as the data is there. I don’t
need the specific dates played either like I’d get
with Trident, I just need the monthly figures.Hi there all,
I’ve read the thread since my leave break and just to clarify we are currently working on a full report for Sirius which will give him the data he needs to reconcile his records and hopefully answer all outstanding questions.
Shane
