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I am very concerned over the stats I am seeing on my account…
In July there were $1000 in Deposits to Titan Poker – and I earned only $19.31 in revenues…
In August there are $1000 in Returns (whatever that is) from Titan Poker giving me a negative of $250
It seems that the $1000 Deposits in July were returned in August and even though I only earned $19.31 I am expected to swallow a negative balance of 25% of those Deposits at $250???
Is this normal? :huh:
I have stuggled with this program for months – each and every month I get a larger negative balance. Even when I finally earn a revenue from one Casino I am knocked back by a negative from another. This is very frustrating. I don’t experience any of these issues from other programs. Maybe just bad luck with Casino Partners. Hardly seems worth the effort. :confused:
I’ve ran 3 tests to check the tracking and casino partners failed all 3 times. I wonder how deep it goes and what numbers I would get if I ran 10 tests, 20 tests. I should have used my head 4 months ago when I read over at pokeraffiliateworld how many affiliates had reservations with the integrity of their tracking for titan. Any affiliate would be amazed at the number of threads regarding this over at pokeraffiliateworld. As a matter of fact if I recall correctly PAW decertified them for this. And many affiliates have dropped them for this exact reason just as I have. It makes me sick the greed and corruption I have found in this business. But they are not the only skimmers I promote, and I will be eliminating them 1 by 1 as I ascertain this is happening even if that means I get down to only the 4-5 programs I have full confidence in. Im just not in the business of selling my traffic for free. Some other affiliates are happy with them and will of course praise them, but I know without the shaddow of a doubt they are robbing me, as one of the tests I ran was on a brand new computer, and had never been to any website at all.
That $1000 fraud charge sounds horrible (every cent?!) – but I’d need more info. Do they tell you how many players deposited?
If it was just one – then at least I can understand why it was all returned.
And yes – if other players won the cash quickly (before chargeback) then the poker room has to honour it and payout to the other players – and your share will be 25% – if that’s your affiliate percentage.
Sounds unfair – until you think it out.
The rake share of $19.31 from $1000 is low (at just 1.9% of deposits) but does not surprise me too much – as frankly most casual poker players are crap – and it doesn’t take them too long to chew through their bankroll.Remember that rakes are only 3% of table stakes – and are usually capped at a low level – so that someone could deposit and burn $1000 in a single hand and only perhaps contribute $3 in rakes.
Here is a snapshot of some poker users I have at a program that gives individual stats :
– Dep $100
total rake $77 = 77% (a top player turns over stake)
– Dep $150
total rake $43 = 28% (average)
– Dep $43
total rake $5 = 11% (average)
– Dep $30
total rake $3 = 10% (average)
– Dep $300
total rake $27 = 9.0% (average)
– Dep $5715 (yes one user) – total rake $309 = 5.4% (keen player – but rubbish)Basically most players sems to generate about 5%-20% of total rake of their deposits – meaning a 20% share pays only 1%-4% of deposit value to affiliates.
Then you have bonus payments – fees – fraud (etc). The bottom line drops down.
:bored:The only good thing about poker players and affiliates is that if you can market to good ones (like the top player above) then they can stay playing and turn a small deposit into a lot of rake.
:kisser:But that’s just how it’s panning out for me – and I’m relatively new to the poker side of it. Hope it helped.
Any bigger poker affilaites prepared to share numbers and facts ?
:help:Titan was one of the first programs I ever promoted.. going on a year now (I have a leftover banner or two now, but I really don’t push them anymore) I’ve never made a penny! In fact, this month finishes out at -.42
I decided long ago that either the stats were funky, or I have nothing but serious bonus chasers, because my bonus column always manages to eat up my revenue column.
In the short time that I have promoted CD Poker, same software, same stats program. I have managed to keep a positive balance. I show MANY more clicks, many more downloads and deposits, in fact, I mentioned here once when I first started that I found it odd that I promoted Titan more than AP yet AP always had HUGE stats compated to Titan.
I haven’t ever tested a download/deposit, but in my own exp. I do much better with CD Poker.
Gooner:
That $1000 fraud charge sounds horrible (every cent?!) – but I’d need more info. Do they tell you how many players deposited?The stats show 4 Deposits all from the same player. 1 on 7/6/2006 and 3 on 7/7/2006.
Gooner:
If it was just one – then at least I can understand why it was all returned.And yes – if other players won the cash quickly (before chargeback) then the poker room has to honour it and payout to the other players – and your share will be 25% – if that’s your affiliate percentage.
I suppose you are correct in your statement.
Unfortunately, I feel as though I am fighting a losing battle with Casino Partners. These programs that kill your revenues with the bundling and negative carryover do not digest well with the affiliate. I wonder how some programs can offer you a no negative carryover and others do not? :dontget:
May be best just to throw in the towel here.
Hey Debra
Yeah – that sucks – but if it’s just one player then it’s possible.
Generally though you are correct – due to the rake system – poker should nearly always be a profitable affiliation relationship.
I’ve got 6 good companies I work with – and have been over the last 12-24 months (dpending on the company) – I’ve just gone back and I cannot find a LOSING month EVER for ANY company once I had a base of 5+ players.
So if you’re not getting satisfaction then defiantely try somewhere else.
:hehe:Hope that helps.
TheGooner wrote:That $1000 fraud charge sounds horrible (every cent?!) – but I’d need more info. Do they tell you how many players deposited?If it was just one – then at least I can understand why it was all returned.
And yes – if other players won the cash quickly (before chargeback) then the poker room has to honour it and payout to the other players – and your share will be 25% – if that’s your affiliate percentage.
Sounds unfair – until you think it out.
The rake share of $19.31 from $1000 is low (at just 1.9% of deposits) but does not surprise me too much – as frankly most casual poker players are crap – and it doesn’t take them too long to chew through their bankroll.Remember that rakes are only 3% of table stakes – and are usually capped at a low level – so that someone could deposit and burn $1000 in a single hand and only perhaps contribute $3 in rakes.
Here is a snapshot of some poker users I have at a program that gives individual stats :
– Dep $100
total rake $77 = 77% (a top player turns over stake)
– Dep $150
total rake $43 = 28% (average)
– Dep $43
total rake $5 = 11% (average)
– Dep $30
total rake $3 = 10% (average)
– Dep $300
total rake $27 = 9.0% (average)
– Dep $5715 (yes one user) – total rake $309 = 5.4% (keen player – but rubbish)Basically most players sems to generate about 5%-20% of total rake of their deposits – meaning a 20% share pays only 1%-4% of deposit value to affiliates.
Then you have bonus payments – fees – fraud (etc). The bottom line drops down.
:bored:The only good thing about poker players and affiliates is that if you can market to good ones (like the top player above) then they can stay playing and turn a small deposit into a lot of rake.
:kisser:But that’s just how it’s panning out for me – and I’m relatively new to the poker side of it. Hope it helped.
Any bigger poker affilaites prepared to share numbers and facts ?
:help:I like that little illustration, so i will share some numbers from one poker room where i have quite a few players, but i’ll just throw out a few examples, one player in particular caught my eye
Dep-$100 … total rake $1092.55(very impressive)
Dep-$400 … total rake $698.72
Dep-$30 032(thats not a misprint) … total rake $376.82
Dep-$210 … total rake $232.53
this is a good poker room, so you usually get good players, i don’t know what room Gooner has but he has a sports site and typically sports bettors arent as serious as poker only players, with few exceptions of course, so that might be the reason for the difference in stats
i find that for the most part my players are good, and that was really the entire purpose of me even creating my first website, to help gamblers win money, and that is why you always see me bitching about the % of player losses commission, i make no money off any of those programs from thousands of players i sent, only the places where i get % of total action bring me money, and since poker offers that, unlike most casinos or sportsbooks, i like to focus on them, and looking at my totals, ignoring the one guy who dumped over $30k, the average of my players combined is currently at close to 60% and going up since they are still playing, using Gooner’s deposit to rake chart
As for Titan Poker, what they did was wrong, if they screwed up its their fault, not yours, from what you said, some kind of fraud was commited, is that right, the player deposited $1000, blew it all, then cancelled his credit card, or something stupid like that, how is that your fault, the one thing i’ve learned over the years(and i haven’t been doing this too long, but time flies when you’re online)is to be really selective of who you partner up with, and i’m sure most people here would say the same, take Bonusgeek’s advice, if they don’t treat you right, dump em, cuz somebody else will treat you right.
What a party is going on here… From bonusgeek claiming that we’re robbing, an other one saying that we’re responsible if a fraudulant player is doing a chargeback and other people saying that it’s our fault if they go into a negative balance… Other claiming that we should be the one taking the hit for a fraudulant player…
Bonusgeek: our tracking system is provided by playtech. This is the very same way cdpoker tracks. Apart from that, over the last 5 years, i had numerous cases of people saying they were being cheated… most of the time they were doing something wrong, or they had an anti cookie etc… etc…Chargeback: the method of sharing the cost of chargeback is pretty much the same in every single affiliate program. I don’t understand what’s the problem here. Maybe i should suggest to the other affiliate programs that we should take processing fees, hold reserves… The way our industry treats the chargeback/processing theme is extremely generous and if you do a bit of research you’ll realise it.
Is it our fault if a player charges back: it’s a very subjective question to which nobody can answer. Titan Poker as well as all other brands under Casino Partners are managed by professional people that have a tremendous experience in managing players of all kind, and countries. Most people are very happy with the results they generate working with us, and they consider (as we do) charge backs a cost of doing business. It’s a very small percentage of transactions that are problematic, and it the particular case, i would recommand the affiliate to turn to its affiliate manager to sort out the issue. As most people here know, we’re very flexible and creative when it comes to help our affiliates.
Laurent
Hi Laurent, Im not going to get into a debate about tracking. All I know is I ran 3 tests and Casino Partners failed all of them. And I might subscribe to your theory that it might be a cookies or something else if one of the tests was not done on a brand new computer right out of the box. I do not enjoy being negative about programs laurent and I would have loved to grow my business with Casino Partners. And I know your quite aware of all the threads about tracking issues with titan over at poker affiliate world. Do you really think all these affiliates have nothing better to do than just sit around bad mouthing your program? I do not know where the problem is, with playtech or directly with Casino Partners and whether it’s intentional or not–but one thing is for sure is Im not being paid for ALL my efforts and as I grow I have to make a business decision to cut out any programs where there are tracking issues. I tried to resolve this with Orit, but he chose to ignore my emails so what do you want me to do, praise you for not tracking my players.
However, I should not have used the terms robbing or skimming in my first post. That may have been unfair as I don’t know if the tracking issues are intional or not. But nevertheless, with the kind of money in this business Im not taking any chances whatsoever selling my players to a program where there are so many issues. There is no telling how much that could cost me, $10K, $20K, $100K over the next few years. For some programs there is not one single thread about any tracking issues on any of the affiliate forums, yet with your program there are numerous, so I think its fair to say that where there is smoke there is fire.
Hey Bonus i had the same problems with them and finally pulled most of there banners and links last month , and have a few more to pull when i get time.
I sent them an email asking that they check my links and see who i referred and they said it cannot be done then told me to promote them more and thell give me a higher cpa ,
I never saw i sign up in the past few months after sending hundreds of quality targeted clicks , and these are good clicks coming from search engines to my site searching for specific sites ,
So actually this whole program is the first program i blacklist , the entire operation ,
@bonusgeek: orit is a SHE and an accountant. She’s not dealing at all with tracking issue. YOu should have talk to your affiliate manager. Send me ([email protected]) your details, correspondances etc… Whatever can help figure out your issues.
I know you’re not bad mouthing for nothing. You tested, didn’t work, you have the right to ask and if you don’t get any answers, then you have the right to claim publicly that we have tracking issues.Everyone knows here, that our affiliate network is one of the strongest on the market. We wouldn’t be where we are with tracking issues and/or without addressing the tracking issues in a timely manner. If there is a problem with your players, then we’ll dig and find out.
Programs without tracking issues? Well, that’s kind of news. They probably dont have enough traffic to get to a critical mass where tracking issues can be highlighted;) Just kidding. Let me know which one you’re talking about and i’ll have a look at what they do. If they have a good tracking procedure, maybe we’ll modify ours.
laurent wrote:@bonusgeek: orit is a SHE and an accountant. She’s not dealing at all with tracking issue. YOu should have talk to your affiliate manager.Sorry Laurent, I meant Amit. And there were several correspondences with him, and he chose to ignore me at the end instead of getting to the bottom of it. So I have WASTED enough time already trying to resolve it to no avail, and I don’t intend on wasting anymore as I am not going to promote your brands with so many affiliates having the same issues. I just can’t fade that knot in my stomach promoting brands where there are tracking issues, especially as an up and coming affiliate. It really takes the fun out of this business for me. But if there comes a point where I feel these issues have been resolved across the board, then I will look at your program again.
Starting from your problem, it would be i believe productive to give it an other try in order to maybe solve a problem that you claim is affecting a lot of affiliates.
I run Casino Partners, and i have someone that is responsible for the poker affiliate department. If there was a broad problem, i would have been made aware of the matter.
I’ll see with amit why he didn’t go to the bottom of htis matter with you and will get back to you on that too.
Please cooperate, you’ll be the first to benefit from it and other affiliates will benefit from it too.Laurent
