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This is quite scary and IMO helps those that would like to ban online gaming.
This is quite scary and IMO helps those that would like to ban online gaming.
I dont see the point. In reality the rouge online casinos to good online casinos ratio is something well over 10/1.
And we break bread by finding that 1 out of every eleven.
The point is that THIS type of behaviour is exactly what those that would like to outlaw online gaming would look to and say that they need to protect us from.
If FA is supposed to be a reputable program and they blatantly steal money from players then that gives this entire business an air of untrustworthiness.
As an affiliate you send out emails and promote just to get players to be trusting in these online casinos then BANG. A program decides it wants to confiscate winnings from players who have followed the rules.This industry = :flush: If this is the way that programs wish to operate.
I know there are tons of affiliates who have made good money from FA and will defend them. This action is indefensible, however. You simply cannot have players feeling that if they go to an online casino they will lose and if they ‘win’ then they will just get their deposit back. Outrageousness.
shrubby wrote:If FA is supposed to be a reputable programNot in my book.
I just read through that thread at Casinomeister, damn, i couldn’t believe what i was reading, the responses from the Fortune Lounge rep could only be described as idiotic
They refuse to pay players who win because they don’t like the way they play, WTF
These guys just hit the rogue list, now you all got something to do, dump them from your sites
Too bad, i didn’t mind these guys, but seriously, how do you justify keeping players winnings because a player hits the roulette table and bets on black, or bets their whole bankroll on a single hand of blackjack
The claims that 91% of players follow similar playing patterns are ridiculous, i got news for you, gamblers arent as stupid as you think, if a system of play is profitable most gamblers will pick up on it and play it
Are poker rooms going to ban players who raise pre flop with pocket pairs, i mean most players do and the end result is usually profitable
As a gambler i could never play here, or feel good about sending players here, critiquing a gamblers choice of play and citing that as a reason for not paying is just crossing way over the line
Unbelievable
If FA is supposed to be a reputable program
Says who?
From what I’ve read – it seems exactly the opposite.
Says I.
I have trouble believing this and am going to investigate it.
If it’s legitimate, I will support shrubby and look for a fix.
If it’s a smear campaign, it has no home at CAP.
Guys I haven’t reviewed this player complaint yet and will withhold judgement on that specific issue, but from an Affiliate standpoint Fortune Affiliates has been well recieved over the years and has a good reputation. David Sack, Marvyn and the team have always been very responsive to affiliate support requests.
The only issue that ever came up that we didnt like was an affiliate terms and condition change that was ill advised. After several months of negotiation they agreed with us and modifed the term.
Again I dont know what this player issue is, but from an Affiliate standpoint to charecterize them as unreputable is unfair and inaccurate.
Uhhh did you guys READ the whole thread? It appears that the matter was being looked into and that Fortune felt that bonus abuse was involved:
Quote:Although Fortune Lounge has always, in the past, been more tolerant towards bonus abusers, unfortunately we cannot continue to do so under current conditions.After a thorough investigation, we found that our bonuses were being grossly abused, predominantly, on Vegas Palms and Desert Dollar, leading to some severe losses for the casinos. This abuse was being committed by well organized syndicates and individuals and, to my knowledge, no “innocent” player’s account was locked.
In the process we locked accounts of players who have abused us and have never returned to the casinos after cashing in and in other cases we locked accounts of players who have pending cash-ins. These cash-ins will not be paid in terms of our Terms and Conditions.
The mail sent to players who were affected is a standard mail and should not have been sent. We apologize for that and an explanatory mail will be sent to all these players today.
The industry has always been plagued by bonus abuse (and a lot of it was our own doing) but this situation cannot continue while operators are trying to survive in a new world and you can expect to see more operators clamping down on bonus abuse in future.
It’s not an uncommon practice to lock players accounts who are suspected of bonus abuse. We dont support bonus abuse and if that was what was occuring the casino was certainly well within its rights to act.
This is a pure player dispute and is NOT the responsibility of the AFFILIATE PROGRAM. I dont think this issue is approriate for us to address as it does NOT involve Fortune Affiliates, and it appears that Casinomeister is assisting the player.
I havent finished reading the whole thread yet, but the poster who started all this seems to be very antagonistic and flamey in their approach, that is NEVER a good way to solve problems and only alienates people.
I DID read the whole thing and what it looks like is that you have a fraud syndicate that needs to be cleaned out. In the process some innocents that fit the pattern may have been affected.
I am sure this will be cleared up with ongoing investigation.
Fraud syndicates are more common than you think, and periodically most casinos have to clean them out. They hurt all of us, casinos, affiliates and players.
Because we have a largely unregulated industry we need to self police here. Casinomeister tries to do that, and we need to take care of our players too.
Fraud syndicates hurt other players more than anything, innocents can get caught up in the cleanup, bonus wagering requirements shoot through the roof and player T&Cs become more and more complicated to prevent individual games from being used to conduct syndicate activities.
We will get this sorted.
I think that player satisfaction should be number one priority for affiliates.
If the players are unhappy with the casinos you send them to, then they will stop taking your advice in the future (not to mention, that they won’t be playing at your casinos, or that it’s just plain wrong).From what I have read, it seems that FL had closed 4000 accounts because players took the bonus offer and tried to come out winners in a way which does not break the T&C. There seems to be no abuse, as the players tried to beat the casino and their bonus offer, which is just fine in my book, and probably in the book of every normal person.
As long as the casino bonus is advertised as “free money” I think it’s fair for people to do the best they can to get the money for free, don’t you? There is a better way to control the bonus money, for example, wagering on roulette not to count towards fullfilling wagering requrements.
I think every affiliate of FL should be concerned, and keep an eye on that thread.
I agree that satisfying legitimate players is an issue that is important to affiliates. I also encourage everyone to keep an eye on the thread at Casinomeister.
Stupid I hope you agree that there is an element of bonus abuse and player fraud that occurs at casinos and that management does have a responsibility to shareholders to weed this out. Fraud hurts ALL of our bottom lines. I am NOT saying that all of the player claims ARE fraudulent, but I do believe that there was a large amount that was and it triggered this repsonse from the casino operator.
Stupid I also hope you agree that when it comes to PLAYER disputes Fortune Affiliates is not directly involved in the issue or a cause of the friction. It’s unfair and inaccurate to attack them for a casino management issue.
I think Bryan Bailey does a masterful job of working out player complaints and thats why we defer this sort of issue to him for resolution. I am certain that what ever is fair for all parties will be done by CM and by the casino group.
I agree that the casinos like calling people who find the way to beat their bonus offers “abusers”.
I always look from the player’s prospective first, as the casino in general has many advantages over the player. You have to agree, that if a casino says “come and get free $100” they should not be surprised if there are players who would actually take them on their offer and try to get the $100 for free. Mind you, this is done without breaking the T&C, by fullfilling wagering limits, and by only working the odds in players advantage (something that is the casinos business model, and model for existence).
I see the casino point of view – but again, they could have been a little smarter and modify the T&C of the bonus to exclude games with odds less favorable to them.
To tell me that the casino is right in closing accounts of people who take them on their own offers, and play only that they could actually win at the casino – that’s wrong.
And those folks are no part of a “syndicate” of any kind – these are people who probably read the hundreds of guides on the internet which point you to the games with the best odds for generating wager numbers without much shift in the actual win-lose amount. You just do a search for “how to beat the online casino bonus” – and you will find them. Working the odds in the player’s advantage is no abuse, wizardofodds.com is based on this.
Oh, and I hope I dont break a big secret – but affiliate programs are “departments” of the online casinos, i.e. they belong to the same company as the online casinos themselves.
So you are saying that there is NO player fraud whatsoever? I dont think that’s a realistic view.
Yes, we should all consider players, but I dont assume that ALL players are ALWAYS right and the casino is always wrong. If I felt that way I wouldnt be in this industry. I have seen on numeorus occasions where “players” have signed up for sometimes hundreds of accounts at the same casino to collect free chips. When they lose the free money they try again and again and again until they do manage to win, then when their withdrawel is denied because they have clearly abused the system they take to the message boards and scream bloody murder and go on and on about how the evil casino was ripping them off and that they played by the rules. A number of people generally then run forward and join the boot party on the casino and say “See we told you Casino X was a rogue!” It HAS happened Stupid and as a person who derives an income from the business you cant just ALWAYS favor the player and assume the casinos are terrible fiends. You have to look at things objectively.
Again I am NOT saying that 100% of players in THIS PARTICULAR issue are fraudulent. I dont have access to the back end data, and neither do you, but to say 100% of whats being reported IS the casino taking advantage of players is unfair and not a reasonable assertion.
As stated before this is a Player issue and I encourage everyone to follow along at Casinomeister and to join that discussion.
