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Hi all,
thought I’d run this by you all up in the private area and see what your thoughts were. Note that yes I have been aware that rakeback sites were stealing away players we already had signed but up until now I imagined it was done for instance … if you were playing at gaming club then if you wanted my rake back you had to sign up thru a different skin such as (for instance) golden tiger.
However that was a wrong assumption. Very disturbing to discover that Interpoker, and perhaps some or all of these other poker rooms listed at the site (rakebreak.com) ;
InterPoker Cryptologic 32.5% Online tracking!
Royal Card Club Prima Poker 35%+ Online tracking!
Battlefield Poker Prima Poker 35%+ Online tracking!
Full Tilt Poker (Independent) 27% Online tracking!
Absolute Poker (Independent) 28% Online tracking!
Ultimate Bet Excapsa (UB) 26%+ Online tracking!
Eurobet Poker PokerRoom.com contact us Online tracking!
Caribbean Sun Cryptologic 30-34% Online tracking!
CD Poker iPoker (Noble) 30% Online tracking!
Fortune Poker Boss Media 25% Online tracking!
Nine Poker Action Poker 25% Online tracking!
Party Poker Party Gaming Special bonus! —
bodog, bet on bet are also listed on the inside members areais allowing my account to be transferred from the original affiliate.
I am currently signed up under a member here at CAP. It was brought to my attention by another player that is was possible to get the rake back even though I’d already been signed up at the poker room. I said this is impossible because it would mean stealing from the original affiliate.
Who btw isn’t really the original. I had been signed up at Intercasino several times over before thru a handful of different aff tags and each time it switched me which although it is unfair; up until now I had always credited that fact to being that their system just wasn’t set up to stop this from happening but now I can see that they are completely aware this sort of thing happens because why else would I have received the reply that came.
Here are my correspondences.
Hi Steve,
Thank you for your email.
We regret to inform you that your current InterPoker account was not properly linked to us – but your account should be able to be transferred to us! And if so, you will get 32.5% rakeback from March 1st onwards! Under RakeBreak.com, you can also get a chance to win a free seat at the 2006 WSOP, by playing on InterPoker…
Please send an email right away to Marc Waxman (our InterPoker affiliate manager), at [email protected]. And use the email address that you used when you registered for your InterPoker account.
Please give him:
1) Your full name
2) Email address used on the InterPoker account
3) InterPoker screen name
4) Please tell him to transfer your InterPoker account to RakeBreak.com (Affiliate Account Number C202634476).
I received this reply from interpoker
Unfortunately your player account is already linked to another affiliate and I can therefore not attribute you to RakeBreak. If you email RakeBreak back and tell them this, they will be able to offer you a solution, whereby you can set up a new player account linked to RakeBreak…
Hope this is clear
Kind regards
Marc Waxman
Head of PartnerLogic – Ads Dot Com Ltd
|(Switch Board 44 (0) 20 7616 1999 | (Direct Line 44 (0) 20 7616 1942 | 2 Fax 44 (0) 20 7616 1984
* [email protected] |From: steve [mailto:[email protected]]
Posted At: 18 March 2006 01:13
Posted To: Marc
Conversation: transfer of accounts
Subject: transfer of accountsLike I said I was already aware you could sign up again and use a different email address and there’d be no problem but I’m still quite amazed that IC was so blatant about sending me the long way around.
Other than appeasing me,… I don’t see to what gain they have by allowing this to happen?
I sure know Jerry isn’t going to be thrilled to read this.
After talking with some of my coherts in the poker room who play less than I: it appears that roughly $400+ (he told me he usually got back between 4 and 500 every month) would be my reward for switching. x12 = $4800 is not an amount that I can reasonably afford to ignore if that amount is correct. I have no way of knowing what kind of numbers I would see with the exception to say that I’d guesstimate I pay roughly $30 and up a day in single table tourney charges …. so ya I guess that’d add up to about $1200 a month. Geez I never realized I played so much.
… Jerry! why didn’t I get a christmas card last year?
… it remains to be seen what the other poker rooms would say under similar scenarios so I’m not saying all the poker rooms in the list are guilty of such things but one cannot help but wonder.
so if you’re poker earnings have went way down its not necessarily just because you’re not getting as many new signups but could be also that earnings are falling off because the good players that had been a big part in making up those earnings (in the past) are all migrating over to get the considerable amount of money back that I mentioned earlier. You might imagine it wouldn’t take near the numbers that I quoted of myself; to turn the head of any savvy gambler.
And a rat is caught eh ?
Don’t allow switching … simply encourage you to open a second account.What a CORRUPT development.
He should go – and RakeBreak.com should have their accounts closed if InterPoker.com is to survive as a reputable site for affiliates.
:beatup:It does ask thew question as to why?
I wonder if Rakebreak.com is taking a lessor overall percentage ?
Or whether by allowing rakeback Interpoker.com beleive that they’ll get a higher overall share of the poker market.Whatever … it stinks.
:nervous:I got this in a conversation with a poker CEO whose name and business I will not mention:
You know what – rake back is quite scary for the industry, at the moment only 10-15% of the players are affected by rakeback and others don’t care about it, but these 15% are high rollers and all pokerrooms want to have them , so they offer rake back, but in this process rakeback will speard across the industry and when it affects 50% of the players, the operators will get screwed with decreased revenue. Same for affs, affs who made 30% MGR will make 3%
At this point the rooms support the theft because it means retention of high rollers to them.
Micro has forbidden their rooms to use the word rakeback. I guess they figure it wont spread like fire then. They prefer the theft to public advertising because all they want is to sift the high rollers off without getting the playing public involved.
I am moderating a session on rakeback in Amsterdam. I would like any material like yours, Steve, to use, without names and businesses mentioned.
I am also meeting with several poker execs this time.
Most successful poker affiliates are very young and they are wildly successful for some six months or so. They recruit their friends and relatives and they recruit in universities and bars etc. Their sources are finite. The poker rooms have a new star affilate every month or so. There are some solid long term poker affs, but they don’t make the money that these young folks make. The rooms spoil them rotten too and give them whatever they want until their results fall off.
I am not going to invest too much in poker now, I think the true value of poker will surface in a few years. Then it will have a big shake out and after that it will make more sense to promote it heavily. I don’t think its going away, but this bubble will burst and a lot of the problem is the greed of both rooms and affs.
In my opinion, for long term retention and player base, the best people to sell poker to is the middle aged weekend player. They will continue to be there. The best rooms to promote are ones with solid bonuses.
Thanks for the posts BB1Webs and Dominque
Very informative. A quality thread.Am truely sorry that I will not be in Amsterdam to follow this …
but I only allow myself one trip to Europe a year and the Football World Cup finals in Germany (in June) are my first (and greatest) priority this year.
:colgate:I would like any material like yours, Steve, to use,
that’s about all I got right there Dom. But I think it suffices nicely to prove any points you may decided to try and drive home.
… quite frankly the damage to me has long been done and I’ve all but stopped promoting poker all together so I doubt I’ll pursue this further but i think if I was an aff who did make the majority of their money thru poker;… I’d be doing my homework to see just how many of these poker rooms are involved in such practices and then when you find out: act accordingly with your website.
Even if its a place that you’re currently making some money you should cut your losses now because to do this sort of thing so casually with so little incentive …. well it speaks volumes to me.
…. sigh. I’ve been trying and trying to get intercasino off the ground because I like the software and they were about the last Crypto I had any hope remaining of ever becoming a worthy partner but with this happening …
I just want to play devil’s advocate for a moment.
If I played a lot of poker, and I suddenly learned that I could get $500+ in rakeback per month, as a player I would certainly want that money. If the poker room where I played told me there is nothing I could do because I had already signed up through an affiliate then I would stop playing at that poker room.
I don’t know what the answer is. Maybe the poker room should give the rakeback to the player and give a smaller % to his original affiliate.
good point.
further it puts us affs in a bad light because then the player is going to hold it against you for having put them in that position.
Its really the poker rooms fault for ever allowing this debacle to get started in the first place but that’s crying about spilt milk at this point.
I think you have a good point about letting the original aff have the difference because I’d almost bet anything that the poker rooms have to be working with the rakeback sites in order to keep the tracking accurate.
which means that the poker rooms are set up so that we all could offer rakebacks if they’d just make the small effort to do right by the people that did right by them in the beginning and make this available to us.
I realize that this is not the popular consensus among most here, but this situation just screams CPA to me. Only promote poker programs that offer a hogh enough CPA that you can live with, collect your money up front, and then it is the poker room that takes a screwing when they have the player switch to a rakeback deal.
Your player values on revshare are low because the heavy players are playing for rakeback on somebody elses tracker.
And I have read the stuff about how one side always gets screwed in a CPA deal, but to me, I don’t really care which side gets screwed. I find a CPA I am happy with and don’t think about it again.
All that being said, most of my poker trackers are on revshare, but I have considered the above and plan to slowly switch to a CPA model.
Cpa sucks for casinos. BUT for Poker it’s not a bad idea due to Rakeback.
When Rakeback really caught on I saw my affiliate earnings plunge by 60 percent over the course of three months. I always target high rollers and as a result I had a higher percentage of targeted players. I have since decided to refocus my efforts more on Casinos and demphasize poker until this rakeback issue gets cleared up.
great article!
Maybe we should do an audit on all the approved programs and see what response they send back as a response.
I am 90% poker and still growing nicely, although i do not target high rollers.
