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Dominique wrote:JF primarily offended players.
Thats about it, but IMO that’s subjective unless someone has solid proof that they did in fact intend to acquire players with disabilities etc.
I think eCOGRA got involved because people were complaining about them doing nothing. And now that they have gotten involved unless they also address 888, it is going to complicate everything and a conspiracy theory becomes more feasible. There is no doubt that 888 has done far worse things than simply offend people.
Also eCOGRA isnt providing links to portals for service or because they are good, they are doing it for self promotion.
I’ve maintained from the first that it is beyond eCOGRA’s mandate to list ‘reputable’ portals: Otherwise I would have asked for a link myself, but I simply feel it’s not appropriate at all for them to list a favoured few.
I was a huge supporter of eCOGRA up until now, but recent events (as eloquently mentioned above) have made me seriously doubt eCOGRA’s integrity.
p.s. The use of scumware (888.com) IS a player issue, even if blackhat/content theft, etc. isn’t.
greek39 wrote:Well I quess everyone is entitled to to their own opinions. I stand firm on my position and in time the whole truth will come out. I will be on this until the cows come home if they ever do.:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Dominique wrote:There are several hundred places linking to my siteI’m confident that there are several hundred site’s linking to you Dom. But, how many of these are also listed at eCogra? Which btw is in keeping with the context of my post to which you’ve response above.
Dominique wrote:Actually, I think you are linking to my site. And holy cow, I am linking to yours, too! Our interests are hopelessly vested and we should likely not post in the same thread!Yes Wager2winUK does link to your 888 thread but only to that page as it links to others on the 888 topic too. But again I’m not listed at eCogra.
Instead of posting again, and for the benefit of those who maybe expereincing grasping the true meaning of Conflict of interest, here is a really good explaination:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interestThere is no conflict of interest for me.
I have supported eCOGRA from the very beginning and I still do. No conflict there.
I think 888 is doing all kinds of wrong things and I went after them for it and still am.
No conflict there either.
The fact that eCOGRA is linking to me even though I am going after 888 is their problem, not mine. I assume if they consider it a conflict of interest, they will drop the link.
If you are conflicted about whether you can trust someone who is considered a reputable portal by eCOGRA, than that is your problem and not mine or eCOGRA’s.
Yes Wager2winUK does link to your 888 thread but only to that page as it links to others on the 888 topic too
I am glad you pointed that out. Wouldn’t want anyone to think you were listing to the crappy rest of my site.
Dominique wrote:There is no conflict of interest for me.You probably not going to like this, I’m sorry, but seeing I’m playing the devils advocate, from your stand point Dom there may well not be any conflict of interest or add to that any form of pre-meditated vested interest either.
Dominique wrote:I have supported eCOGRA from the very beginning and I still do. No conflict there.Unless you can state 100% void of any doubt, that no one who has visited the eCogra site and has then visited your site, (via the reputable portal links page) followed by signing up to a gaming property and depositing, which in turn you’ve received financial gain from, like it or not, admit to it or not, this in essence is a vested interest and maybe also be viewed as a conflict of interest too.
Dominique wrote:I think 888 is doing all kinds of wrong things and I went after them for it and still am.Yes you did, yes you are and I’ve never questioned your commitment to the 888 issues. In fact if you peruse my postings you’ll see a definate ‘pat on the back’ attitude shinning thru. Besides if I didn’t feel you were performing a sartorial effort, I sure as hell wouldn’t be linking to your 888.com page.
Hence your statement above leaves me scratching my head as to why you’d post it in this context.
Unless of course your using this as some quasi justified reason as to why I or others should cut you some slack on the eCogra/vested/conflict issue.
Dominique wrote:The fact that eCOGRA is linking to me even though I am going after 888 is their problem, not mine.It may not be a problem to you Dom, but it’s still an issue.
Dominique wrote:I assume if they consider it a conflict of interest, they will drop the link.At a guess, I’d say from what’s transpired over the favouritism shown by eCogra to 888.com. this very well explains why your link as well as others are listed in the first place.
Dominique wrote:If you are conflicted about whether you can trust someone who is considered a reputable portal by eCOGRA, than that is your problem and not mine or eCOGRA’s.Maybe, however, if eCogra chooses to act in the manner that it has (and on your own admission your going after 888.com) and in doing so lends itself to align with bias activities, then I for one would certainly hope that you did hold a BIG problem with this.
Admitting that you don’t imo only goes to encourage trust issues being raised.
cut you some slack on the eCogra/vested/conflict issue.
Now you’ve gone nuts.
I need no “slack”.
I like eCOGRA.
I have some 2500 visitors a day and don’t need one from eCOGRA.
I am out of this thread.
Dominique wrote:Now you’ve gone nuts.I need no “slack”.
I like eCOGRA.
I have some 2500 visitors a day and don’t need one from eCOGRA.
I am out of this thread.
The flip side to this is I’m hitting the nail on the head and it’s now too hot for you in the kitchen.
Which ever way people see this that’s their right, as its your right to ignore the writing on the wall.
Just as it’s my right to keep posting it.
In so far as your statement “I have some 2500 visitors a day and don’t need one from eCOGRA.”
You may not need any from eCogra but I’m sure your not knocking any back either. Especially if visitors from eCogra deposit, eh?
While this has been an entertaining read, I’m sure most of us agree that whether or not Dom is linked from eCOGRA is a non-issue.
I seriously doubt that having that link in any way affects decisions Dominique makes regarding … well … anything!
Dominique,
It just didn’t seem right that I don’t commend you on your sarcastic retort in response to my direct question to jetset over at CM.
Instead of keeping this seperate and I’d dare say still miffed that your unable to post a valid response to my post here (3 above), you’ve tried to throw me into a direct firing line over at CM’s instead.
Well sorry my dear it’s back fired. I’m now in the process of letting your mates over at CM know exactly where I stand on these issues.
Dominique wrote:eCOGRA doesn’t even have anything to do with webmasters.No they just promote their web sites instead.
BTW, Your claws are showing :p
Who Can Stop 888 Casino?
Well, 888 won’t stop misbehaving, so will the apparently independant regulators stop them? Not while 888 fund the regulators and have John Anderson, the Chief Executive Officer of 888.com on the board of directors no.ECOGRA – (ecommerce and online gaming regulation and assurance) will do nothing but sit on their hands while being employed via funds gleaned via 888 Casino allegedly nefarious activities. This is a self regulatory based firm that attempts to assure a casino’s overall integrity via a few methods I won’t go into here. Then the firm has the cheek to singularise it’s remit by insisting it will not get involved in unethical behaviour by casinos unless it directly involves a player issue. Although, I contest Ecogra are up for some lip service involving an unsealed software regarding malware, ie Gambling Federation, and will shamelessly use it to talk up their product.
Shame on Ecogra for not acting swiftly to curtail 888’s irresponsible and rogue behaviour.
Shame on all directly or indirectly involved with 888 Casino. (including me)
The above resides on my 888 blacklisted page. No one else mentioned it, but they will.
Anyway – If Ecogra threw me a link, I would contest conflict of interest vehemently. I understand the reasoning, but I think it is incorrect, though understandable, to question Dom in this regard.
The differences are – the online gaming industry is young and unregulated.
# Ecogra are the only ones to try, but I feel they are far from good enough.
# The likes of Dom give ecogra credit and support for being the best available.Both are fair points imo. The way forward is for Ecogra to meet the challenge and please everyone.
Blind eyeing 888, while pulling FJ, on top of the mindset laid by Ecogra of insisting on “responsible” operator conduct in all aspects of the sealed casino operation, will ultimately cost them the faith of some of the likes of Dom.
Wager2winUK wrote:Fact one:
John Anderson CEO of Cassava (888.com) provided funding to establish eCogra.Fact two:
John Anderson holds a non-executive independent directors position at eCogra.Fact three:
eCOGRA’s constitution is structured as such that the non-executive independent directors will always have control over board decisions, thereby guaranteeing eCOGRA’s autonomy from affiliated software providers and operators. (http://www.ecogra.com/About.aspx?Page=2&OP=P)While I believe that players do benefit overall from eCOGRA’s efforts, if the above three facts are true; ie, John Anderson, CEO of Cassava, has any ability to shape eCOGRA decisions/findings, i cannot be argued that eCOGRA’s honesty &/or integrity is not breached.
I’m not trying to make any absolute statement, but I honestly feel that this issue is something that desperately needs to be adressed.
Yes, eCOGRA is a wonderful idea and, for the most part, exerts a positive influence on the industry. However, given the above facts, eCOGRA may be fundamentally corrupt.
Can anybody state unequivically that John Anderson’s association with eCOGRA in no way affects the operation of eCOGRA – what cases they investigate, decisions made, etc.?
joeyl wrote:Blind eyeing 888, while pulling FJ, on top of the mindset laid by Ecogra of insisting on “responsible” operator conduct in all aspects of the sealed casino operation, will ultimately cost them the faith of some of the likes of Dom.Well, this http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/look-at-the-latest-888-action.12571.html? definitely has brought me a step closer to losing faith.
However, it’s still the best attempt out there to regulate things in a way that helps players, and unless someone shows me something better to support, I will continue to support eCOGRA.
Fergie wrote:Can anybody state unequivically that John Anderson’s association with eCOGRA in no way affects the operation of eCOGRA – what cases they investigate, decisions made, etc.?Even if; though it’s been documented otherwise, John Anderson did not put one single pence into eCogra. In my view he still is a non-executive independent directors and as such eCogra states on their website as to the ref I provided with the URL, that non-executive independent directors will always have control over board decisions. Kind of seals (no pun intended) its fate in my book.
But yes in regard to the funding issue, I’d be interested to hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth on this direct question.
I’ve just let my view be known over at CM. Maybe stupid move on my part, but believe in laying all my cards on the table.
I don’t disagree that eCogra seems to be the best of the long line of organisations we’ve seen step up to the plate; least imo since entering the industry in 2000 in a webmaster capacity.
However, as Joeyl points out the industry is still young. On the other hand lets not forget the looming of those who want to see our industry illegalised.
Sh#t like this (eCogra’s 888.com shielding) imo just gives them more power and more reason to seriously push things like the H.R.4777 and to align other Governments into their own processes and reasons.
eCogra needs to be totally Transparent, imo it needs to monitor casinos 24/7 (it’s not as hard a task as some may lead you to think). Above all eCogra must stand unconnected to anyone who holds any vested interest in this industry, well in my view anyway.
Maybe one day the industry may thank us for taking this stand :clapper:
