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What is this nonsense about closing accounts? Do we or do we not have players for life?
I too have just started earning some money with VA … what I consider to be a hopeful token of what I fully expect to see down the road … have accumulated what I imagine are more than a handful of decent players and now I read this thread.
Sigh. Henry if you’ve got experience in the aff side of business then you sure haven’t shown it here.
Nobody likes to be threatened with losing money they have already earned first of all.
I’m going to help you out. Here’s how your first letter should have went:
____________
Hi Fred,
My name is Henry and I’m the new Affiliate Manager here at Vegas Affiliates.
I’ve checked your affiliate account and found that you have one player that was referred in Feb 2005. It was an encouraging start but things must have fallen off from there because there were never any further players sent and also we cannot find any links to our casinos on your site.Fred you may have not been aware so I will take this op to do so: we have in our T&Cs where you must at least be linked to us from somewhere on your site at all times or risk having your account closed.
I see an op here for us to both keep that from happening and get that player count up from the lonely number of one all in one fairly easy effort but that will of course need to come from your side of the field. In return I’ll do my part by overlooking the extended period of time that has passed where you didn’t have any links to us and stand ready to be of any kind of help you may need in getting text or banner link codes, or if you can think of anything else I can do to help along the process I would be happy to do so.
Please keep this on the front burner Fred until such time that you’ve satisfied the T&Cs so there won’t be any chance of my having to shut down your account.
I very much look forward to working with you Fred and I believe VA will become a profitable and valuable network to have listed on your sites. I hope to hear from you soon.
Sincerely,
Henry Ruuskanen
Affiliate Managerbb1webs wrote:I too have just started earning some money with VA … what I consider to be a hopeful token of what I fully expect to see down the road … have accumulated what I imagine are more than a handful of decent players and now I read this thread.Sigh. Henry if you’ve got experience in the aff side of business then you sure haven’t shown it here.
Nobody likes to be threatened with losing money they have already earned first of all.
I’m going to help you out. Here’s how your first letter should have went:
____________
Hi Fred,
My name is Henry and I’m the new Affiliate Manager here at Vegas Affiliates.
I’ve checked your affiliate account and found that you have one player that was referred in Feb 2005. It was an encouraging start but things must have fallen off from there because there were never any further players sent and also we cannot find any links to our casinos on your site.Fred you may have not been aware so I will take this op to do so: we have in our T&Cs where you must at least be linked to us from somewhere on your site at all times or risk having your account closed.
I see an op here for us to both keep that from happening and get that player count up from the lonely number of one all in one fairly easy effort but that will of course need to come from your side of the field. In return I’ll do my part by overlooking the extended period of time that has passed where you didn’t have any links to us and stand ready to be of any kind of help you may need in getting text or banner link codes, or if you can think of anything else I can do to help along the process I would be happy to do so.
Please keep this on the front burner Fred until such time that you’ve satisfied the T&Cs so there won’t be any chance of my having to shut down your account.
I very much look forward to working with you Fred and I believe VA will become a profitable and valuable network to have listed on your sites. I hope to hear from you soon.
Sincerely,
Henry Ruuskanen
Affiliate ManagerExcellent bb1webs, thats the way it should be done, nice and polite. Perhaps you should apply for is job, i think you’ll do 1000 times better than he can ever do. No doubt he will get sacked when the management start seeing figures dropping every month because of is poor people skills.
Several times in the past, Fred has been kind enough to give me his opinions on who’s cool to work with. I’ll take his advice for as long as he’ll give it to me. It’s usually quite good advice.
Wow! Perhaps everyone could take a deep breath!:unhappy:
I like Vegas Affiliates, and they’ve been pretty good to us over the years.
I really have no complaints on that front.
Let’s do keep some perspective on that in the sense that they are a good program for many webmasters.That said, I didn’t fair well with Vegas Affiliates early on, (perhaps like Fred), and reduced exposure to just a few links.
Then one day DVS was telling me how good he was doing there, and thought hell, if he’s doing well, maybe I should reconsider cause I trust him a lot on things like this.
I’m glad I did, cause we’ve acheived some decent stabilitly there over the past year or so which makes me want to increase exposure even more.Now Henry, I don’t know you, but I know Fred for some 5 years now, and I can tell you 100% honestly, he’s about as good a guy as you’ll find in this business.
I also think Fred is the kind of guy that if you just asked nicely, he would have gladly agreed to put a few links up. Which he sort of did anyway.You DID come on to him WAY TOO strong there in that first email, and yes, he did come back too strong,…. but in retaliation.
You really can’t blame him for that.I imagine you’re actually a pretty good guy too, and I suspect some lessons have already been learned here.
You got off to a rocky start, and I hate to see that with any program, especially one that has great terms, and good casinos.Might I suggest you two bury the hatchet, and Henry,…just apologize for the aggressive initial contact, and I imagine Fred would accept the truce.
I doubt he’s going to put you up at this point, but at least you might be able to work something out in the future!
Ok, I better get out of here before I get myself in trouble!
Henry you still have not gone back to your post and taken out Fred’s entire name, you should do that asap.
I asked him to put links up and he didn’t. Instead he got on his high horse. What can you do. It’s not like he didn’t have a choice. He obviously stopped promoting the casinos for whatever reason and now he’s out of pocket. Unfortunate but true.
How could he get linking code? He was locked out and could not retrieve his password.
About having players for life, I do not have a job with a 401k plan. I am now 50 years old. I don’t plan on doing this forever. I would like to build up a player base to live off when I retire. Social Security will never be enough.
Fred may have sent you only one player, but that is one more player than you would have had without him.
You say Fred did not live up to his contract according to the t&cs. Who can live up to a contract that is subject to change at any time without our agreement or consideration.
MODIFICATIONS
Vegas Affiliates may modify any of the Terms and Conditions set forth in this Agreement by posting the modified Terms of Use at: http://www.vegasaffiliates.com or at another site it chooses, and by notifying the Member of the modifications via email notice.
Modifications may include, for example, changes in the scope of available referral fees, fee schedules, payment procedures and referral program rules. IF ANY MODIFICATION IS UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU, YOUR ONLY RECOURSE IS TO TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR CONTINUED PARTICIPATION IN THE PROGRAM FOLLOWING OUR POSTING OF A CHANGE NOTICE OR NEW AGREEMENT ON OUR SITE WILL CONSTITUTE BINDING ACCEPTANCE OF THE CHANGE.
That looks pretty much like a one-sided agreement to me.
I can’t believe what I am reading here.
Henry – you really need to apologise and apologise fast and meaningfully.
We have been doing well with you guys for a while now and actually only started promoting you after the whole referback fiasco. They are only now starting to find exposure on our sites again, but it goes to show that even big performers can and will be dropped in an instant for reasons we as affiliates feel fit.
After a lot of discussions and clearing the air, we slowly started promoting them again and we will probably have a good future with each other. That is the way one does it in this industry – asking for exposure .. not demanding it and finding out why your casinos were dropped – there could be a very valid reason and a simple explanation may clear that up.
In essence, it simply boils down to customer service and respect for your “PARTNERS” which we as affiliates supposedly are!
The suggestion by bb1webs on how to email people is excellent. That would actually makke anybody consider dealing with a program.
I personally find giving out personal information, such as names to be shameful. I need not read this thread any longer I have heard enough. Programs must earn respect from webmasters not the other way around. Unfortunatley VA has lost my respect. The approach VA has takin is brutish and uncalled for.
I will be closing my account down, completely. greek39
Nice one BB… LOL…
Sad to see VA follow the birds south…. and it’s still summertime!
Well i appreciate all the kind words and the support, we affiliates stick together when we are treated unfairly. Or when there is free beer!
It’s almost 24 hours since i first posted this and i’ve not heard from henry or his boss. The account is still locked.
Henry, you blew it. The correct first contact would have involved this line:
“I don’t seen any banners on your site and no traffic coming to our casinos. Our terms allow us to close accounts that aren’t promoting us, so I’m hoping that you can give us some coverage. Please let me know if there are any issues that are keeping us off your site, otherwise I need to see some action on your part in the next month or two to keep our relationship “going”
nice, simple, polite and it points out that you are within your rights to take action.
Instead, you wanted to play power games, but guess what? I’ve got a lot more power in this industry that you do. And because of your actions with me, your words here and your inability to admit you made a bad mistake, your reputation has been badly scarred. On the other hand, it’s quite possible, that despite my outrageous language, that both my power and prestige has expanded…..strange huh?
The real lesson here, isn’t “Know who your talking to, before you utter your first word”, though that is a great one. Rather: “In the affiliate game, the affiliate is your customer, not the other way around” until you pay me in advance or guarantee a certain level of revenue, you have no right to demand anything!
So, henry, i’m sorry i had to drag you into the public square and put you in the stocks, but your behavior, before and since indicate that you still don’t get it.
I think it’s time that you get your boss in here and have him/her tell us that he supports you 100%, so we can all move on from here. My guess is you still haven’t told the boss that you’ve started a war, hence my prediction that you won’t be around much longer.
Henry, make my prediction a errant one, deal with this correctly, learn from your mistakes and make sure you keep your job.
Don’t let your ego ruin your future in the Affiliate industry and hurt your employer’s business.
The ball is in your court.
:banger:
That is definitely not a good thing for VA… How can you approach people like this? Some people need to learn about communication.
Fred, after a night of sleep do agree that I was too harsh and rushed through your emails without proper replies. I took it up with my colleagues as I got to work and they agree also. I do apologise for this and admit to being in the wrong.
I’ve buried the hatchet and have no hard feelings against you. I hope to talk to you over the phone later today and put the our differences to rest.
Regards
Henryi appreciate your change of heart henry. I’m sorry i felt it necessary to prove a point and use you as an example.
I hope that we can chat soon (probably next week, i’m on the road) and work something out.
I did want this “message” to ring out to all affiliate programs, we work on commission, so we must work together, but the casino side can’t force the issue, unless they are paying up front or making some other prepaid deal.
Any honest casino group can get a shot on my sites and i have always been happy with MGS casinos and the quality of their operations. I’m sure over time i’ll have a similar feeling for vegas aff.
But please remember, you can best help your clients by helping us promote your products and making sure that payments are timely.
fred
Glad to see you two settled this. Let’s just hope that VA becomes a better program as Henry settles into his job more and gets his feet wet.
:drunk2:
Ok, will call you next week to chat… and affiliate payments on time has been my #1 priority since I started. I hope to have a more streamlined process in place soon and possibly an upgrade to the affiliate software.
