- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
During last week’s meeting, though, the FBI “made clear they wanted [information on subscribers] for other reasons as well. … Terrorism was mentioned,” one of the sources said.
It’s a tough issue. Just like when we were kids in school, always one clown who kept the whole class from doing something.
It makes me mad that they want this private information about me and what I am doing. We all know that being anonymous brings out some sick stuff over the internet. So where do we draw the line?
I guess as adults, the few will still mess it up for the many.
This isn’t a tough issue at all. Keep Big Brother away from this information. Everything these days is done in the name of terrorism and child pornography, as if having everyone’s personal information will stop terrorism from happening. You could argue just the opposite that more terrorism will come of it…just from other sources. Last I heard, several groups were doing a great job at catching child predators using online methods, if it weren’t for the internet, many of those sick people would still be walking the streets.
I draw the line at the thought of the government listening to all of my phone calls, reviewing all of my emails and checking out all of the sites I am surfing. The bottom line is that it all hampers free speech, and without free speech, America is no longer America.
I agree with Webber…
The government has basically been keeping everyone in this “state of fear”…in the name of “fighting terrorism” or “child pornography” or “illiegal aliens”.
This is the basis for the stance on online gambling being “illegal” and any one in the US that gambles online is breaking the law. Even though there is no means to enforce this “law”. The background for big brother here is that they are “fighting terrorism” as most of the offshore gaming houses have been built by money launderers who support terrorism. Therefore, we need to know who is gambling online and have their personal information so that we can fight terrorism. Sound like a strech to the average Joe playing Holdem at Party Poker?
What will this personal information do for the greater good and who are they trying to protect?
America is quickly turning into a Fascist state…
Here is a good article to put it in perspective
xxhttp://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htmIMHO…This is not happening in other parts of the democratic world (at least to this extent)….
I cried and cried on September 11th 2001, over and over again I imagined the pain people must have gone through, hearing the president, tears still rolling down my cheeks, I said, now the government can do whatever they want, in the name of security. My husband, who generally belives that nearly everything is a conspiracy didn’t belive me.. He does now
We all want to be safe, we all want to be free from terrorism, but we still can’t live in fear, allowing the governemnt to blanket every new law under national security.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin, 1773
The United States Constitution and Bill of Rights, has one and only one purpose… To limit the power of the United States Government over its Citizens.
When Government ignores, mis-interprets or tries to change these documents American Citizens should all become very wary, as our real and true freedom is at stake…
I think you all make valid points on this BUT we are targeting the wrong end.
This, in my opinion, is not a US Government problem. It is a US Citizen problem and until we wake up as a whole and exercise our right to yell, scream, holler and VOTE…..it will always be status quo.
Excellent quote LotsO…as true today as it was then.
Excellent quote LotsO…well said 4flush..
It is a shame that most americans seem either to believe the progranda or crap found in the soundbites of today’s “media” ….or are more concerned with what is happening with the “in” Hollywood celebrities than what is happening to their own rights and civil liberties.
There is a subtle shift that has taken place in the US that is changing the way we look at each other and our world. By looking at everyone’s records or at least having access to them our government and so called justice system are starting to assume that everyone is guilty until proven innocent. It has supposedly been the American Way to believe a person innocent until proven guilty but that is no longer the case.
There is a war going on in the United States right now that many people are unaware of. It is the struggle between the people and the government/corporations. At stake are the American ideals of freedom and liberty. This isn’t the first time it has happened. Just look at the McCarthy era for a classic example. It was the entertainment industry that was targeted then and a lot of lives were ruined because of it. This time, though, the stakes are higher and more people are involved. This whole thing really got going when the election was stolen from the American People. Just like the latest subtle shift, that was subtle too but had dramatic consequences. It was a coup and not a shot was fired but the control of the government was taken from the people. They have maintained that control with propaganda and fear and it is such a classic example of manipulation it will be used as an example in the future in text books.
It is sad but some people are probably going to get hurt or killed. Take a look at the union riots in this country not so long ago when federal troops gunned down people who were striking. Big corporatins were behind that and are behind the latest attack. Violence against Americans is what will change all this, it won’t happen in the courts or halls of congress so don’t wait for help from your congressman.
Fear is the key and the government and the media are master fear mongers. Every day they tell people what they should fear, from the coming hurricane season to the next pandemic to online predators. Fear is the key element behind fundamentalism in religion. It creates radicals and extremists and sheep who run and hide.
Eventually, when the pain and destruction get too bad, the people rise up, but in the meantime these insidious bastards entrench themselves and it is harder to dislodge them. The pendulum of public opinion that has been swinging toward jingoism will swing back again to personal freedom and a quieter form of patriotism with more respect for human rights, but it won’t happen overnight.
The Vietnam War raged on and thousands were killed until one day Americans were hearing that their leaders had lied to them and bombed yet another country and then there were images of American college kids gunned down on a campus by national guardsmen. I’m afraid it will take some such shocking thing to give that old pendulum a swing in the other direction, in the meantime people like us who can be pointed out as suspect for breakng bogus laws will be targeted to make an example of what happens when you buck the status quo. The biggest thing the bureaucrats fear is that someone will stand up and question that status quo, and that is where we come in. Some people assume that the government should control and monitor the internet while we have the audacity to question that logic.
It all starts with these subtle shifts in thinking. They are the thin edge of the wedge. Like a tiny lsliver slowly inserted under the skin, eventually the pain is too great but it takes a while and all the time is is getting deeper. In the meantime we have to hang on and help each other.
I find this a thoughtful post.
Thank you.
And I think it’s worth noting a psuedo-related and interesting story here as well.
Anyone familiar with torrent sites will know about thepiratebay. This is a Swedish site, widely recognized as one of the world leaders in torrent exchange.
Bowing to pressure from the US (IMO), the Swedish police raided the ISP and took all the servers belonging to TPB, to supposedly collect evidence of copyright enfringement, but it is commonly thought, to collect user info as well.
They didn’t count on the level of ire in the users though. Someone hit the Swedish police with a DNS attack.
I think this is a small taste of what is to come if the current path is not altered.
http://thepiratebay.org/
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060602-6969.html
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22Pirate+Bay%22&btnG=Search+NewsNoah, interesting post. Wasn’t aware that this took place … funnily enough, the titile of pirate bay is “the police bay” right now :grunt:
Well Said spanky…one thing…I’m not even sure if it is a subtle shift as it is very obvious to many outside of the situation. I am sad to say that people are not “going to be killed” but have already….they are the good folks fighting a “war” in Iraq. It was the opportunistic presentation after 9-11 of Iraq having/acquring WMD and harbouring terrorists that got the American people behind the administration to invade that country in a preemptive strike.
Here is a good rant on that topic (well said by the author)
xxhttp://develnet.org/ThisAndThat/DaddyWhyDidWeHaveToAttackIraqThe scary thing is you can’t even say these thoughts in the United States as you would be deemed “unpatriotic” and “against the troops”. I witnessed this first hand when I was in Vegas a few months after the invasion and was kicked out of a cab…after the redneck cabbie said to me… “We should just bomb all those goddam people in Iraq, they are all just terrorists anyway..fucking muslims. What the fuck, don’t they realize that we are there for there own good. We don’t need to be there, they should be on their knees as we pass them and appreciate the fact that we are saving their asses”. My simple response back was…”do you think that 17-18 year old Iraqi boy that just had his house bombed and is seeing Americans for the first time, rolling by him on the streets realizes that he is getting his ass saved?”
Out to the street I went…Whatever happened to free speach?
Oh I forgot…I was in America….This was around the same time that the anti-gambling rightwingers like John Ashcroft starting pressing the media through the justice department to stop accepting gambling ads. The media basically shrivelled up with the threats and accepted this new censorship. Obviously affecting many of the folks on this website!!
Now that a “law” has passed in the Washington State regarding online gambling and will take effect on June 7th, and the fact that the US government can tap anyones phone or get phone records from corporations, etc. It will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with these threats and arrest some individuals for promoting gambling or just playing poker at party poker!
On a seperate but similar topic….
Watched this PBS story yesterday regarding the 25th anniversary of the aids epidemic. xxhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/view/
Highly recommend it. You can watch it online…What’s interesting is… of course…it took 20+ years for basically the USA to say there was a problem. With George W. et al.’s commitment to fight Aids in Africa with $15B pledge…but there are conditions. In order for the poor countries to get any funds they basically cannot promote or do anything regarding condom distribution. The majority of the money is also committed to christian mercanary and religious organizations and not directly to aid organizations.
