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Amen to that. I personally throw out at least three Slow Hand magazines every month. The money you guys waste on these publications is criminal.
No kidding.. I never open them either.
And do rethink your idea of witholding the first payment. It is particularly hurtful to new affiliates. You called it an incentive – I fail to see any type incentive there.
No where have I ever heard of any business saying bring us customers but they don’t count until they are a repeat customer. Car salesmen would have a hell of a time with this one..
C’mon you guys.
Everyone is “threatening” to do something over these massive changes.
Why isn’t anyone DOING anything??? What in the world are you waiting for, the sky to fall?
As bad as the no credit for first deposits is on casino clients… it is 10x worse if you are promoting poker.
If a good poker player (you know, the ones that earn all the money, it’s the winners that provide commission via rake in poker) joins Gaming Club Poker, there is every chance that they will NEVER make a second deposit, yet quite happily play for months and months making BelleRock Gaming plenty of money through his rake, but we, as the affiliates bringing in those players would get $0 for it.
Notice there is no CPA deal for poker players?
I also want to know, for casino players, while we don’t get credit for their first deposit now, do we still lose on the bonuses they are paid? i.e. is Referback not only ripping us off, but double dipping too?
I’m still hoping for a backflip by Referback on some issues, but that has more to do with me being too lazy to actually remove banners, then any faint glimmer of hope… I think I’m still in shock
Re: Slowhand magazine… I actually read at least half of it every month, makes for good toilet reading material
‘makes for good toilet reading material’
I actually used it as toilet paper once when i ran out :shakebutt
Anyway, I finished removing the last links i had going to these junk casinos. In the past I was too lazy to do so, but now there is no way that I will send even a click that way.
Basically the terms as I see it read like this:
Earn 20% commission excluding the first deposit. We also have some other bs.
Hmmmm…. I am getting offered 30 -50% commission for LIFETIME revenue by everyone else. Referback you are a joke, there is no valid reason to promote you. Look at the top search results in any search engine, almost no one carries your properties. You cannot convert players worth a damn, you certainly cannot retain them. As far as I am concerned you are the laughing stock of the affiliate industry. Try and think about why at one point you were number 1 in this business, and why you are now nearly last.
If you want to start making money again offer us a flat 40% commission, and remove these absurb terms. Anything less is not acceptable.
And quit with the bs about how your business costs are high. You are an online casino you have basically no costs. Bandwidth is cheap, so is your customer support. Microgaming charges you 25% for the software. And since rumor has it that you are owned by microgaming that should not be a factor anyway.
This is what i want to do on your terms
:Pisser:
Have a good one. Please do not send any more emails my way for me to promote you I will report them as SPAM.
Why isn’t anyone DOING anything??? What in the world are you waiting for, the sky to fall?
I for one am waiting an extra day or two to give RB time to consider.
Its a lot of work to remove links, create a warning section naming what is going to be a lot of casinos if things keep up in same fashion.
I’m hoping to avoid all that as I imagine others are feeling the same way. its just too hard to believe that RB is going to stick to these terms without changing the more obvious ones which I think its nearly unanimous that they will be unacceptable and therefore will cause reaction of very big and very serious repercussions.
Because I for one won’t rest with just seeing the links removed. I will petition my peers relentlessly to take aggressive campaign action to thwart any further playing at the casinos involved.
I don’t want to be this way, and pray it doesn’t come to that; but that doesn’t mean I will back down one bit.
it must be this way or else we’ll get run over by everybody. I hope RB realizes the position they are putting us in.
Even a deer will turn and fight when cornered and left no other choice. I feel that is very much like the position we’re finding ourselves if no flexibiity is shown on the part of the sponsors.
Hi all,
I accept that many of you are upset and confused about some of the additions to the terms and conditions. I use the word additions as there are no retroactive changes to the revised terms and conditions. Let me clarify the few points that I believe are still misunderstood by some affiliates.
Addressing the definition of an “Active Casino Customer”
Firstly attempting a purchase of more than $500 is not possible as this is the purchase limit at the credit card companies and the casinos. Large first purchases are rare for new gamblers, due to trust issues etc. As much as you and I would like all players to join the casino purely for its entertainment value, this does not happen, as new players are mostly joining for the signup bonus. The remaining small percentage of players that do not apply for the bonus, will probable make multiple smaller purchases, as found during an investigation into this issue.
Here is my reasoning as to how this can be beneficial to affiliates. Players receive an incentive for their first purchase and most cases the free bonus exceeds the purchase as with the $50 for $200 promotion. As per the old definition the affiliate has a balance of -$150.00, and as per the new definition the balance is still $0. If the player leaves the casino you have lost nothing if the player purchases again the balance will show the first and second purchase less the bonus. Now the player has value, as he/she is able to make multiple purchases.
Please note: We definitely DO NOT discount the 1st purchase, as you will receive full commission on all purchases that the player has made from the date that they opened the first casino account. This extends to any and all first purchases the player may have made at any casino in the group.Addressing the “Lapsed Customer” clause
If a player stops playing at all the casinos in the group for 6 consecutive months the player will be considered lapsed. This applies from the 1st of August 2005. The date will be included in the terms for clarification. This will not apply to players acquired prior to this date.
Taking into consideration all the retention as well as reactivation promotions, if a customer is INACTIVE for 6 MONTHS on the GROUP of casinos chances are he/she is really not interested in being a casino player.
I can understand that a webmaster would revisit a casino after 6 months, however would a player? This is 6 months without responding to any casino promotions. This does not apply to players that play every day or month.
The opportunity/positive here is that all affiliates are now able to re-acquire these lapsed players via their web sites and they will be linked to the affiliate that did the work. This applies to players that signed up directly with the casino as well. As it is many affiliates refer qualified gamblers that have not played in years and are already linked to an affiliate or the casino directly and thus lose out on the commission. A case of either or?
I think that all the other points raised have been clarified. As all of you know I am open to any questions or discussion in regards to the above or any questions you might have. Please include your aff id in a private mail if you have any questions relating to your own account.
Thank you
These two are complete deal breakers for me.
I was going to increase your exposure as I remove Fortune and Vegas Partners, now this will go to Vegas Affiliates, Brightshare, 32red, Referspot and some others.
I am not trusting any programs anymore and I will diversify even more.
The 6 month clause IS retroactive as it applies to players previously sent as well.
I was hoping to take the weekend off before facing a week of mayhem with the remodeling – now I will have to spend it planning new positions carefully with new properties as I am removing Fortune, Vegas Partners, Partnerlogic, Wager Junction and Referback.
What a waste of time, but loyalty pays no return in an industry where contracts are meaningless.
Damn!
Hi Dominique,
“The 6 month clause IS retroactive as it applies to players previously sent as well.”
The 6 month clause does not apply to players that were refered prior to the 1st of August 2005. We have updated the terms and contions to include this date.
Wayne wrote:Firstly attempting a purchase of more than $500 is not possible as this is the purchase limit at the credit card companiesFew people use credit cards anyway — most use an online wallet of some sort, where the limit is much higher. Please don’t hide behind this $500 credit card limit explanation.Players receive an incentive for their first purchase and most cases the free bonus exceeds the purchase as with the $50 for $200 promotion. As per the old definition the affiliate has a balance of -$150.00, and as per the new definition the balance is still $0.
This assumes that the player deposits only $50. What if the player deposits $500 and takes the free $200 as well? Then my account will have a balance. If that player never makes a second deposit, I get nothing. Why not? Why would you implement such a rule? Is it my problem that you can’t retain the player?
Quote:Large first purchases are rare for new gamblers, due to trust issues etc. As much as you and I would like all players to join the casino purely for its entertainment value, this does not happen, as new players are mostly joining for the signup bonus. The remaining small percentage of players that do not apply for the bonus, will probable make multiple smaller purchases, as found during an investigation into this issue.Here’s a clue — DON’T OFFER BONUSES!!! Hello?! How is it my problem that people are taking advantage of bonuses YOU are offering?
Large first purchases are rare…
What is considered rare? 10%? 5%? The fact is, situations like this do happen. If an experienced high roller makes a large first deposit but decides not to return, we should be entitled to a cut of that money. Period. We referred them to you, and you made quite a profit from that player. To tell us that we aren’t entitled to this money is unacceptable. It does not matter how rarely this happens — the fact of the matter is, it can happen, and we should be rewarded when it does happen.
Quote:The remaining small percentage of players that do not apply for the bonus, will probably make multiple smaller purchasesWhat is the “small percentage?” And what does “probably” mean? This is too vague. What about those who don’t take the bonus, but only deposit once? Again… the affiliate should be entitled to a commission from this referral. This is the way the majority of affiliate programs operate. Why do you think your business model so much better than the others? Oh, I know why — more $$$ for you, less $$$ for us.
The opportunity/positive here is that all affiliates are now able to re-acquire these lapsed players via their web sites and they will be linked to the affiliate that did the work.
Where is the “positive” in this situation? This is completely unacceptable. A referral should be connected to me FOR LIFE. PERIOD. I should NEVER have to worry about “re-recruiting” players that I’ve sent to you in the past.
It is entirely possible that someone could open an account, gamble awhile, and then go on a 6 month vacation somewhere. High rollers especially — they have the money to take long vacations. Just because someone doesn’t respond to your email incentives or whatever, doesn’t mean they won’t come back. Why not just leave them connected to the affiliate?? Why not? Obviously there is some benefit to be gained by removing the connection after 6 months. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have put that clause in the new T&Cs.
re-acquire these lapsed players
Unacceptable. The players that I refer to you should be mine FOR LIFE. I should never have to hunt down old referrals and ask them to re-sign up. If I’m going to take the time to track down a high roller, I most certainly will not send them back to you — I’ll direct them to a decent casino — one with integrity and ethics.
My partnership with Referback is officially over. Cancel my account; shut it all down.
I will be publishing a list of blacklisted casinos later today, and the Referback casinos will be at the top of the list. Congrats Referback — you made it to the top.
Quote:The 6 month clause does not apply to players that were refered prior to the 1st of August 2005. We have updated the terms and contions to include this date.Thank you Wayne! At last we are starting to make SOME progress! :drunk2:
There are really only a few issues remaining that are creating a major rub and are truly unfair to affiliates, lets work together TODAY to iron those out as well.
Can we count on you to do this with us?
I know we would all love to move forward to a profitable and productive August and this ruckus is detracting time from the effort.
Hi Engineer,
Thank you for the reply. Yes I agree with allot of what you have to say. However players cannot remain in the casino data base forever, this does not make sense. At some point we have to draw the line and in our case we have decided to tell you were the line is.
What is a qualified player in your opinion? A player that makes (a) large purchase or one that makes multiple purchases over months. I concede that there are players that make a first purchase larger than the initial bonus. However these players are few and are most likely to make a second purchase.
Hi Professor,
Yes you can count on me and apologize that I haven’t been around sooner as I have been ill. I agree the only way forward is through discussion and understanding. I will to the best of my ability address all issues raised on this forum as well as with our team
Thank you.
WayneThe opportunity/positive here is that all affiliates are now able to re-acquire these lapsed players via their web sites and they will be linked to the affiliate that did the work. This applies to players that signed up directly with the casino as well.
I’m confused. A player who does not play at the casino for 6 months no longer has an account and they are free to sign up for another account again under the affiliate who manages to recruit them? If this is the case, would that not put them in the ‘ first purchase’ catagory? Would that not make them eligible for sign up bonuses again? I am totally confused here. Please tell me exactly what happens to a player after 6 months of inactivity. Take it from the point where they open the software on their computer and log in after 7 months of inactivity using the account number they were assigned.
Hi Wayne,
Thanks for replying, and thank you
for updating your T&Cs regarding the 6 month clause. I am glad you are feeling well enough to join in this important discussion.However players cannot remain in the casino data base forever, this does not make sense. At some point we have to draw the line and in our case we have decided to tell you were the line is.
Understood. But how about a line at 3 years instead of 6 months? Other programs are tracking players “for life” — why can’t you? You were before, so why can’t this continue?
Assuming you must draw a line somewhere, I think 3 years is more acceptabale than 6 months. 6 months of inactivity is just not enough time to know “for sure” if a player isn’t going to return. I think 3 years is more like it. (So long as the 3 year rule does not apply to players referred before August 1, 2005 — those players should still be tracked forever to prevent the clause from being retroactive).
Regarding qualified players — To me, a qualified player is described by both of the types you mentioned: one that makes one large deposit, and one that makes multiple smaller deposits. One large deposit could last a long time for some people. I believe affiliates should be paid a commission on ALL referrals, regardless of whether or not the player makes a second deposit. This is the way most other programs operate, and this is the way you operated prior to August 1. The new model is less than ideal, and many affiliates will choose to promote programs that don’t have such a clause in the T&Cs. Restructure the bonus program instead; don’t implement a 2nd deposit requirement.
Spearmaster wrote:C’mon you guys.Everyone is “threatening” to do something over these massive changes.
Why isn’t anyone DOING anything??? What in the world are you waiting for, the sky to fall?
AMEN to that brother!
I notice that several of these highly objectional individuals are still proudly displaying links and banners on their sites !!!! :cuss: WTF? How can you be screaming your head off here and then turning your back there?
Requiring a second deposit is unacceptable! Removing players after 6 months is unacceptable! Claiming ownership of your domains (thats sketchy) is unacceptable! Forcing affiliates to accept a 20% share when they signed up for more is unacceptable! (he hasnt said whether or not that will be retoractive!)
COME ON – dont just spew out BS – take actions! Go Remove the links and add Referback to a blacklist and WARN all your players NOT to play at those properties! :beatup:
