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Hi there
We have read and noted all your concerns with regard to the changes we’ve made to our Terms and Conditions and would like to make an official response.
With the launch of our new casino commission models, You can choose to move onto any one of our new Commission Models at any time, between 1 August, 2005 and October 30, 2005. Note that to allow us to accurately migrate you from one deal to the next, your new commission deal will only take effect on the 1st of the following month. Alternatively, you can remain on the Classic Casino Commission Model.
These new Commission Models which were launched on the 4th of July, resulted from a strategic business model and cost structure review which Referback undertook during the first quarter of this year.
To make these great new offers viable for all parties, the Terms and Conditions had to be tailored to meet the needs of both the affiliates and the business and are in keeping with good business practice across the online gaming and affiliate industry.
The expanded and adjusted Terms and Conditions now include the following clauses:
– Commission Schedule
– Intellectual Property
– Affiliate verification
– TerminationAddressing the ”Retro-active” concerns
The changes to our Terms and Conditions are not Retro-active. These Terms and Conditions only apply as of 1 August 2005 and onwards.
Addressing the definition of an “Active Casino Customer”
With the creation of the Belle Rock Gaming Group, what was once a number of individual brands, were brought together under one brand to form a true online gaming powerhouse.
The housing of these brands under one endorser brand also necessitates the management of these brands as a singular group. This allows for a greater unified presence in the online gaming arena and ultimately enhances the player experience. This in turn will result in positive outcomes for our affiliates and casinos alike.
It also means that the definition of a new player has been adjusted to reflect a new customer for the Belle Rock Gaming Group, as a player who is deemed as active when they make their first unincentivised purchase.
This is due to the fact that the first purchase made at a casino is heavily incentivised (for example they Purchase $50 and Get 200 credits Free) and therefore leaves the casino with a negative revenue. A player who makes a purchase without needing to be incentivised is a valuable player for both you, the affiliate, and the casino.
The above means that you will be earning commission on players who are actually spending money and not hunting for free bonuses. In addition, you will earn commission on your customer across all casino brands within Belle Rock Gaming at which they play.
Addressing the “Lapsed Customer” clause
This is not a retro-active change. We know that if a Customer has not purchased nor played for an extended period of 6 consecutive months, there is no chance that they will return to the casino. On the positive side, should you manage to re-active this customer, you will earn commission as per the Casino Commission Model that you are on.Addressing the “Intellectual Property” clause
Our Merchants advised us that we need to actively protect their Intellectual Property and Marketing Material, namely that of the Belle Rock Gaming group of online casinos and online poker brands. Protecting the Intellectual Property of our Merchants also extends to the usage of Derivative URL’s, marketing material and the marketing of these brands. Carmen Media and Belle Rock Gaming’s request to ReferBack and to you is to use your best endeavors to ensure that the reputation, goodwill brand equity and proprietary rights that vest in the Intellectual Property are protected, maintained and wherever possible, enhanced for the ultimate benefit of the Merchant and its licensors.Below is a brief explanation of the usage of derivative urls
url]www.riverbelle-slots-online.com[/url]The above url is a derivative url as it mentions River Belle, however this url is not classified as a Prohibitive Derivative URL. An example of a Prohibitive URL would be:
http://www.riverbell.com
http://www.riverbelle.co.uk
http://www.riverbelle.ca
http://www.riverbelle.tv
http://www.riverbele.com
etc. etc.Confusingly similar is the guideline.
In terms of the sale of the url: http://www.riverbelle-slots-online.com, the affiliate simply needs to inform us that he/she owns the url and should the affilaite wish to sell the url or the url is about to expire, we would like to know about this so that we can register the url in the name of Domain Escrow Services.
In terms of the usage of the url: http://www.riverbelle-slots-online.com This url can resolve directly to the main http://www.riverbelle.com site or the affiliate may advertise River Belle in any manner as he/she wishes as long as he/she adheres to our IP regulations as set out in the IP Manuals.(as yet not published)
This derivative url may not be used to advertise competitors or any other non-related brands, thus protecting the goodwill and equity of the brand.
Addressing the ”Affiliate verification” clause
ReferBack complies with the internationally accepted KYC (Know Your Customer) Policies and the general guidelines and policies as set out by e-Cogra.These policies are in place to protect everyone in the industry including ReferBack from any unlawful activity, such as money-laundering and the transfer of funds for fraudulent or terrorist activities.
Preventative and detective controls addressing money laundering and fraud risks shall be implemented according to the relevant points as set out in the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) guidelines.
Addressing the ”Sale of A Business” clause
These Terms and Conditions are there to protect you as the seller. And to allow you time to notify us of your intention to sell your domain to a third party.In the past the buyer has notified us of the transfer, yet you as the seller have not. This has placed us in a very uncomfortable situation with the buyer, with whom we may not have a trust-based relationship. It also resulted in us not knowing if we can pay any commission due from this site/business to the buyer as in our knowledge the site still belongs to you, the seller.
In closing, we do recognize that you may have concerns with the changes that we’ve implemented. Should you have any further questions, please contact your Affiliate Relationship Manager.
Best Wishes
Nicolette Tsombanellis
On behalf of ReferBackP.S. Wayne is currently out of the office, in bed with the flu. Hopefully, he’ll be feeling better by tomorrow.
Well it is good to hear more details on the upcoming changes, i reviewed the T & C’s and came across these two items:
2.4. If an existing Affiliate chooses a Casino Commission Model other than the Classic Casino Commission Model, he/ she shall earn a Commission of 20% of the Casino Net Win (defined below) generated by the Merchant from Customers acquired by such Affiliate prior to 1 August 2005 notwithstanding that prior to such time his/ her Commission derived from such Customers may have been more than 20%.
“So if we change our commission plan as they are trying to encourage us to do, all of our past “lifetime” players drop to 20% payment rate? What a horrible deal.”
2.5. Once an Affiliate makes his/ her selection of a Casino Commission Model and the Poker Commission Model, he/ she shall not be entitled to change such selection for a period of 12 months from the date such selection was made by the Affiliate and confirmed by Referback
We are not able to change our commission model but I bet if they are not happy with a CPA deal they themselves will change ours to a revenue deal.
Wayne I hope you get better soon and are able to respond to item 2.5, it can make a big difference on how some affiliates decide on what to program to promote if any.
Brian
Good catch/point Brian …
They are trying to retroactively get you to accept new terms lowering your rates. Thats Bull$hit sorry for the french but it is! :shooter:
This is not a retro-active change. We know that if a Customer has not purchased nor played for an extended period of 6 consecutive months, there is no chance that they will return to the casino.
Thats non-sense! No chance? I personally have dozens of casinos loaded on my machine – I go 6months easily before returning to some, but I almost always do return!
“This is due to the fact that the first purchase made at a casino is heavily incentivised (for example they Purchase $50 and Get 200 credits Free) and therefore leaves the casino with a negative revenue. A player who makes a purchase without needing to be incentivised is a valuable player for both you, the affiliate, and the casino.
The above means that you will be earning commission on players who are actually spending money and not hunting for free bonuses. In addition, you will earn commission on your customer across all casino brands within Belle Rock Gaming at which they play.”
Who else does this? So stop offering incentives. Most of them are BS anyway.
It is rather obvious that you no longer desire to have any affiliates whatsoever, so why not just come out and say it, or just shut down the affiliate program and keep the money?
This is due to the fact that the first purchase made at a casino is heavily incentivised (for example they Purchase $50 and Get 200 credits Free) and therefore leaves the casino with a negative revenue. A player who makes a purchase without needing to be incentivised is a valuable player for both you, the affiliate, and the casino.
The above means that you will be earning commission on players who are actually spending money and not hunting for free bonuses. In addition, you will earn commission on your customer across all casino brands within Belle Rock Gaming at which they play.
This is nonsense. Increasing numbers of players do not accept bonuses. The wagering requirements have become such a nuisance that increasingly I hear from players who want to know if a casino places the bonus automatically or if they ask you to apply for it. They prefer the casino NOT put a bonus in their account. I never use bonuses either. So now you get punished for bringing in players who are in it just for fun and entertainment. If the problem is incentivised play, I would rather pay a piece of the incentive and enoy the definite non-bonus hunting players I bring in. This argument is totally flawed.
Addressing the “Lapsed Customer” clause
This is not a retro-active change. We know that if a Customer has not purchased nor played for an extended period of 6 consecutive months, there is no chance that they will return to the casino. On the positive side, should you manage to re-active this customer, you will earn commission as per the Casino Commission Model that you are on.This IS a retroactive clause. It is being applied to players we brought in previously. If it were to apply only to players brought in after August 1, then it would not be retroactive. Flawed logic again.
And again, I am proof of the opposite. I return every other year or so, but return I do, and I do drop money when I return.And the seller/buyer clause means in effect that you control who we can and cannot sell to. Some of us have built up a piece of online real estate exactly with the thought of selling to retire.
And now you will decide who we will be able to sell to? I think not!
And going down to 20% RETROACTIVELY if we choose a new payment method – if you have a number of existing players you are a fool to switch!
Hi Wayne,
I am very fucking disappointed about the new terms and conditions. They suck suck suck. Referback’s new management is going to destroy Referback with no dought. Many affiliates here have been with Referback sinse the beginning and now this is the thanks we all get. I do not agree with these new t/cs. They are a breach of Referback’s original agreement to affiliates that in good faith joined and promoted your program for all these years. There are many programs begging to get on my sites with much better offers. These programs know how valueable our traffic is.This is ridicuolus now for me…I planned to start a casino site but I am sure this program will not be on the site. Period.
Such an explanation about stiffing everybody.
Dominique has right, if the incentives the problem, why they don’t let you to do your work without it? Instead of this “great” TC they could let you to offer the place to your players without bonus and with bonus. And then deduct from your account the bonus (in case your player ASKS for the bonus)… I think this explanation has nothing to do with the main facts at all.
Please keep in mind that the Classic Commission already contains a term which was made retroactive – the “one player per month” clause was recently added and NOT agreed to.
When you remove that, then we will call that the Classic Commission.
Also:
Quote:This is not a retro-active change. We know that if a Customer has not purchased nor played for an extended period of 6 consecutive months, there is no chance that they will return to the casino. On the positive side, should you manage to re-active this customer, you will earn commission as per the Casino Commission Model that you are on.If you know there is no chance that a player will return to the casino, why in the world do you even put this clause in the contract? What if, on the offchance, someone was on vacation for six months, then comes back?
Please remove this totally unacceptable clause.
These are the two I am watching right now. Others are bring up the other problems and I will let them continue along that vein for now until I have seen that you are willing to treat affiliates properly by fixing these two problems first.
Captain wrote:Hi Wayne,
I am very fucking disappointed about the new terms and conditions. They suck suck suck. Referback’s new management is going to destroy Referback with no dought. Many affiliates here have been with Referback sinse the beginning and now this is the thanks we all get. I do not agree with these new t/cs. They are a breach of Referback’s original agreement to affiliates that in good faith joined and promoted your program for all these years. There are many programs begging to get on my sites with much better offers. These programs know how valueable our traffic is.Very well said Allan, my sentiments exactly. I guess our loyalty & hard work promoting their casinos over the past several years, that helped make Referback a successful & profitable affiliate program, isn’t of any importance to them. By evaluating the changes they have made to the t&c’s it’s hard for me to see any aspect that’s positive for affiliates & rewards us in any way for our contribution to their success. Rather than showing appreciation for their affiliates efforts by improving the terms, they’re instead sticking it to us good, with no vaseline
I must agree with what everyone else has said up to this point.
You need to remove the lapsed player clause from your terms. Players return to casinos after 6 months. The only logical reason for a program to remove players from an affiliate account after 6 months, is because they don’t want to pay commissions on the player if they return.
Your casinos are always changing bonuses, using these bonuses as a marketing ploy to get new players into your casinos. Now, your going to turn around and tell the affiliates that have taken so much time updating these bonuses every time they’re changed, that they’ll now be punished for players that take these bonuses because they often lead to bonus abuse.You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want to offer 400% bonuses to your players, then you have to assume the risk of bonus abuse. Don’t try and put this problem onto the affiliates.. just change the bonuses.
I’ve been a supporter of the ReferBack program for over 4 years now, but if you don’t get things together right now, and start showing some love for your affiliates, I’ll remove all of your casinos from my network.
Hi folks from RB,
first, thank you for coming in and addressing these issues.
I cannot speak for everyone, but I think I can say the majority of us have not yet given up on you; and you’re coming in and keeping the communication lines open reinforces hope.
For myself, the only big problem I have with these changes is the first deposit thing.
I understand the need to adjust because of bonus offers, but a blanket statement such as “first deposit” is totally out of line. Its not sound thinking for either side and please let me explain why.
what aff in his/her right mind is going to chance sending players to someplace where if they did deposit say $10,000 the first time; that we’d see nothing for our efforts. What if they dropped that much the first deposit and lost; got pissed and never came back. Do you really think it is fair that the aff gets nothing for the $10k they just made you?
Nobody is going to risk that.
Which brings me to a point others have already brought up; and that being that you’re just trying to get rid of your affs so you don’t have to pay them.
If that is true, and you will be proving it to be, if you insist on keeping a couple of these new terms which are rediculous; you’re going to get much more than you bargained for; because its already in discussion that the people that made you; will not just take you off their sites; they will take on an aggressive campaign to warn players away from your casinos; and rightly so.
I beg the powers that be; to consider just how ugly this can all get if they insist on shitting on us.
We want to make you money. In the long run, we are your best bet by far. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you; and we won’t bite the hand that feeds us. That’s how it should be.
Please understand that we are willing to be reasonable and work with you in almost any way that isn’t a blatant slap in the face.
Nobody here wants a war. But I am not kidding when I say it could get real freaking ugly and it should be considered extremely carefully about the fact that the very same way your casinos gained the exposure and respectability they currently enjoy; can be undone in the same fashion and I shudder to think how much quicker that can happen when you add “pissed-off” as an incentive.
Please, keep communication open with us; let us make suggestions to help you reach the honorable goal that I think you are trying to obtain.
Please don’t turn this into a vendetta situation because nobody is going to come away a winner. And I can almost promise these affs are not going to just take down your links. they will take aggressive action which will result in literally tons of portals listing on their front page or someplace close – a warning list of your casinos to avoid or stop playing at.
This is simply not true.
The 6 month rule is plainly retroactive.Affiliates agreed to promote Referback for LIFETIME customers, no matter when they choose to play.
If it is no big deal, then the condition doesn’t need to be there.Also, commission rates for EXISTING customers are affected, especially if smaller affiliates cannot get 1 new ‘active’ customer some months.
It just doesn’t seem fair if an existing big player loses, say, $30000.
Commission would drop from $10500 to $6000.Due to the stricter conditions there is now an even bigger chance of this happening.
It is hard enough to get active players due to all the credit card hassle, without this added hurdle.Wayne wrote:..
Addressing the ”Retro-active” concernsThe changes to our Terms and Conditions are not Retro-active. These Terms and Conditions only apply as of 1 August 2005 and onwards.
..Nobody here wants a war. But I am not kidding when I say it could get real freaking ugly and it should be considered extremely carefully about the fact that the very same way your casinos gained the exposure and respectability they currently enjoy; can be undone in the same fashion and I shudder to think how much quicker that can happen when you add “pissed-off” as an incentive.
Amen to that Captain!!!
RB do you really want an ugly mess on your hands? I think you should all have a meeting and think about how much damage a bunch of disgruntled affiliates can cause, we own our sites so we can post whatever we want and you can do nothing about it! I think it is better to just change these nasty new clauses you have made up and be done with it!
Now, let me also ask why is it that you all think it is perfectly acceptable to break and bend contracts at your will? Do you think that we have no choice but to go along with it due to the country some of us live in and think we have no stand against you? Don’t even think you have us all by the balls(I don’t have them but still) because you don’t.
Affiliates made you and they can break you!!!
BTW if you think that “cold calling” is working and the constant stupid snail mailers can replace us your dead wrong! Gamblesrs do NOT want to be harrased over the phone and they most certainly toss out the shit you over send in the snail mail. Cut your cost elsewhere but leave us HARD working affiliates alone!
Quote:they most certainly toss out the shit you over send in the snail mail. Cut your cost elsewhere but leave us HARD working affiliates alone!Amen to that. I personally throw out at least three Slow Hand magazines every month. The money you guys waste on these publications is criminal.
Rather then “save” pennies by ripping off the affiliates who helped build your business cut some of the fat and waste you guys pass off as a marketing plan.
Just because when we were asleep on the trigger when the first 4 programs started breaking their contracts (and the law) doesn’t mean we will sleep forever.
Please remove the retroactive clause – the 6 month one. It is one of your greatest assets that one can build up a nice player base with you. Don’t throw that away. If they don’t come back – well it doesn’t matter then if you leave them in our accounts where they belong. The 35% “lifetime” offer you have all over your site is a lie anymore!
And do rethink your idea of witholding the first payment. It is particularly hurtful to new affiliates. You called it an incentive – I fail to see any type incentive there.
These two clauses are a complete deal breaker for me.
If they stand I will have to add you to the list of programs whose casinos are scheduled to be completely removed from my site. That tends to be irreversible – too much trouble.
We now have Fortune, Vegas Partners, Partnerlogic, Wager Junction and – you? to remove from our sites in order to assure that we are dealing with people who keep their word.
