Online Casino

[Anonymous]

Not Amused wrote:

First I never said you stole any of our players….
I said it was very strange that all our players stopped playing day one after the takeover of the casino….
An affiliate that had earned over $1000 the month before …..
all of a sudden earned nothing.

Hmm really… seems like one of my and a few others complaint.

[Anonymous]

Diceman wrote:

WAIT! first how can any of you say they are honest when they will not let the people that are unhappy to go back to rev share?

If you don’t believe they are honest, what difference is going back to the old plan going to make? Wouldn’t they just alter the results to keep you down in the pit?

If you truly do not trust them, then you are doing yourself a disservice by continuing to promote them. Many have already walked, others will eventually follow.

[Anonymous]

Oh and Ryan.. Heres that email and the response. Its you that did not get back with me BTW.
Ryan,

I think you misunderstood the whole scales thing bro. But anyway, I just dont understand how all my players are gone and why your company decided to change all of us. I know I am not the only one… Actually I dont think there is anyone happy about this.

As far as earnings. I cant really tell. and 179 is crap. I remember when I made about 2k with you guys every month and 5k with captain cooks/casino kingdom.

Oh well.
Mark

On 6/12/2006 8:45:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
>
>
> While I do not appreciate the personal remark about getting scales, I
>
> will ignore it this time. I have done everything possible to fight for
>
> unhappy affiliates during this transition.
>
>
>
> While you might not like the new model, I think you should know:
>
> You’ve earned: $179.90 more on the 35% wager model since April 1st than
> you would have under the 35% RevShare model during the same period.
>
> Best,
> Ryan

As far as the honesty part.
The thing is I see this all the time. Affiliate programs trying to get away with shit and playing the PR game to perfection. I guess I should clerify that I dont think they are dishonest exactly but….

If anything I would just like to have a stable work place without all the crap we have to put up with as affiliates. Its bad enough the government gives us a hard time. I dont want to have a hard time with the people I work with. Its not good business and I just want a fair deal and a little respect when it comes to the fact. I have been a long time affiliate with CR and its a bit hard to just say goodbye. Even when you dont feel like your being treated right. I guess its a bit like family or cable service.

[Anonymous]

The true wager model is a blatant attempt to reduce commissions and it has worked! I say, leave sonner rather than later.

[Anonymous]

Well, this is all very confusing to me, you couldn’t pay me to go back to the old system.

I am happy as a lark, no worries about winners, what I see is what I get, and I get nicely.

I really just don’t understand, unless your players leave after a few bets you should do well on this.

Of course it’s summer time now and many don’t do well…

[Anonymous]

The true wager model is a blatant attempt to reduce commissions and it has worked! I say, leave sonner rather than later.

So its not like they did something behind your back. You had a choice (for most people anyway, not arguing whether or not a few emails did or did not get sent/received: I couldn’t know). And as for future players go … its still a choice.

________________

… better for all involved to take positive steps towards a positive solution to the problem than to just turn your heads and walk different directions. Nobody wins when that happens … even if the aff program were to get to keep what players you’d already accumulated (not that it would happen that way, just making a point) they still are ending a relationship that (and I can say this now with a few years under my belt) might have went on a long, long time adding up to a number of players that would make the current number look like a joke in comparison (and that’s true regardless of whether you’ve got 20000, 200 or 20 at current time).

I think that CR has been smart about seeing the big picture for a long time now and I just don’t see them getting short eyes this late in the game.

Ryan is obviously making himself accessible. Seems to me that anyone who feels they have seen a strange occurance in their accounts activity could if asking the right detailed questions … at least try to get a reasonable understanding of what has caused their respective problem and that recognized … puts the ball into Ryan’s side of the court to try and get the players back by sending them the emails now armed with the knowledge of what might have put the players off in the first place … as opposed to the SOP “come back and play” emails they likely received when they first became MIA.

on a related side note: We can only do so much with the knowledge we are armed with; and since the player’s email address isn’t made known to us, its not like we can contact them and get them back playing EVEN if we do discover what set them off in the first place. that said. I’ve never known CR to not try and accomodate any request I’ve made to try and get a player back. If I had any kind of “might work” angle, they were willing to send the email and try, so I give them kudos for that.

and I’m sure an attempt or three have been made to get the players back but I would think that ESPECIALLY in the case of one long-time aff who suddenly sees such a drop-off that an extra effort be made to at least recapture SOME of such a heavy loss incurred (and in such short time span) … since they’ve obviously been there for the sponsor with such a proven history.

[Anonymous]

Not Amused wrote:

As far as the opt out.
It was my error not saving our conversations.
My loss.
Shoud have known better for sure.

Nobody said you made an mistake by not saving IM conversations. I just asked that you send me the original email you said you sent.

[Anonymous]

Diceman wrote:

Ryan you play this PR GAME pretty well I must say “I sent this affiliate an email”. Must be why you forgot about the things I requested that you said even before vegas you would have for me. I asked you in vegas and you did the liars look to the left and said “oh yeh! we will have that all ready to go when you get back. I called someone today and let them know to work on that for you”.
Everyone, I get back home and there is nothing. I emailed Ryan about it and he did not get back with me forever and then forgot. On top of that there was so much more I wanted to do with CR but he did not care deep down inside. Yeh some of you have it like that. The others that dont.. more than likely because you have the brass balls in your hand. Try to be the other guy and then I will support your claim that this is a “HONEST” affiliate program.

I have to admit, I’m a bit lost on this one … are you talking about CAC Vegas 2005? Webmaster World, Vegas 2005? Affiliate Summit, Vegas, 2006? Are you requesting a new tool? report? Not sure how this relates to the wager model discussion? That said, we’re always interested in new ideas… please refresh my memory. Thanks. [Was this at a party? Is it possible I was drinking :shots: ?]

Diceman wrote:

WAIT! first how can any of you say they are honest when they will not let the people that are unhappy to go back to rev share?

The company has moved to the Wager Model and no longer offers RevShare … not sure how that relates to being honest or not? I can’t switch people back to a model the company is no longer supporting. ??

The company has made the decision to move to the wager model and I have to play the cards I’m dealt – right now I’ve got a hand full of ‘wager model’. My goal is to work with affiliates, educate you guys on the model, voice/take your concerns to management and try to get the best for everybody involved while working within the parameters I’m given from management.

Diceman wrote:

If so… Why? Dont any of you think that it should not be this way? Anyone even really thought why they are so solid about this decision and policy? I can tell you why really quick.. They make more money with us this way bottom line. Funny thing also is that more players convert with this new modle. hmmmm

More players ‘convert’ on this model because the old system showed a ‘join’ only when a player deposited an aggregate of $100. The feedback we got was that this wasn’t allowing affiliates to do an ‘apples to apples’ comparison against other programs because nobody else did it that way. As a result the new system shows a new player when they place a bet.

Diceman wrote:

Well let me ask one question about this new model.. Does it cover the stats of any games other than BJ, Slots and poker? If so why is it not listed in the stats? Im sure you do but if so…. where do I find those numbers?

The commission is based on % of wagering. As a result, we’ve had to group the games by their margin. So far, we’ve got 5 groups of games with similar margins. Slots, BJ, VP, Table Games & Poker. All games are grouped into those categories because the margins are similar. If MGS comes out with new low or high margin games that do not fit into the current grouping then we will have to create another category.

Diceman wrote:

Bottom line… Lets do this Ryan sence you seem so cool about getting things out in the open (when it works out for you) heres one for you… You keep going on and on about that one month, How about this month….? Better yet here ya go… How about you get the numbers together and do a “since the change” calculation on my account. I know for a flaming fact that I would have earned more in Rev share.. Should not be that hard to do.

As I said, that was the total from the months from the switch to time we were trading emails. So that total was over 2.5 months at the time…. not a single month.

So far since the switch (All months since the switch [April 1st through to July 19th]) to you’ve made exactly: $14.64 more on the wager model.

However, this month, so far, you’d have made $19.89 more on the RevShare model.

Diceman wrote:

On top of all that there is still that issue where after you took over in just a few months I went from 88 wagered or wagering players or something crazy like that to now uh 4 active in less than a year. So how is this possible again? Will you tell me attrition?

Took over what? Cooks Merger? Aztec/Phoe? Regardless… are you insinuating I/We’ve taken your players? *sigh* … are we really this disparate that you’re resorting to this?? C’mon…

I know you’re not talking about when I personally started … because my first interaction with you was tracking you down because there was a payment issue (payments weren’t getting through to those details) and hadn’t been paid in over half a year … so I sorted that out and got you all your outstanding money … and you didn’t even know it was missing.

Diceman, we’ve traded several emails since I started here at CR and you’ve always seemed like a ‘good guy’. I haven’t changed my opinion of you … I think you’re frustrated (which is understandable) and it’s manifesting itself here by leveraging off misunderstandings and/or partial information. Let’s get on the phone and chat this through … you might not like me/us any more when the chat is over, but at least we’ll all be working on the same information.

[Anonymous]

Diceman wrote:

Hmm so no one.. I mean no one is reading between the lines on this? I wont even go into it.. Ill just let those that “know better” see the real picture here. Ok ill give a hint… THEY REALLY WANT YOU TO BE IN THE NEW MODLE, HOW DAMN OBVIOUS IS THAT?

Is this meant to be profound in some way? The company has moved to the wager model and obviously wants everybody on it.

We have some exciting plans for the future of the wager model … they would not be possible with a RevShare model.

[Anonymous]

Diceman wrote:

Originally Posted by Not Amused
First I never said you stole any of our players….
I said it was very strange that all our players stopped playing day one after the takeover of the casino….
An affiliate that had earned over $1000 the month before …..
all of a sudden earned nothing.

Hmm really… seems like one of my and a few others complaint.

This is a different issue to the wager model opt-out.

Unfortunately, you guys aren’t alone. The cook’s merger was the first merger this company did and our call center was NOT able to handle the demand of all those players. As a result, some players got miffed and went elsewhere. That’s the company’s loss as well as the affiliate’s loss and was obviously not intentional.

That said, we did learn from our mistakes and our call center is now over 5 times the size it was and has had considerable resources poured in to it over the past year.

[Anonymous]

Diceman wrote:

Oh and Ryan.. Heres that email and the response. Its you that did not get back with me BTW.
Ryan,

I think you misunderstood the whole scales thing bro. But anyway, I just dont understand how all my players are gone and why your company decided to change all of us. I know I am not the only one… Actually I dont think there is anyone happy about this.

As far as earnings. I cant really tell. and 179 is crap. I remember when I made about 2k with you guys every month and 5k with captain cooks/casino kingdom.

Oh well.
Mark

On 6/12/2006 8:45:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
>
>
> While I do not appreciate the personal remark about getting scales, I
>
> will ignore it this time. I have done everything possible to fight for
>
> unhappy affiliates during this transition.
>
>
>
> While you might not like the new model, I think you should know:
>
> You’ve earned: $179.90 more on the 35% wager model since April 1st than
> you would have under the 35% RevShare model during the same period.
>
> Best,
> Ryan

As far as the honesty part.
The thing is I see this all the time. Affiliate programs trying to get away with shit and playing the PR game to perfection. I guess I should clerify that I dont think they are dishonest exactly but….

If anything I would just like to have a stable work place without all the crap we have to put up with as affiliates. Its bad enough the government gives us a hard time. I dont want to have a hard time with the people I work with. Its not good business and I just want a fair deal and a little respect when it comes to the fact. I have been a long time affiliate with CR and its a bit hard to just say goodbye. Even when you dont feel like your being treated right. I guess its a bit like family or cable service.

Here is the reply I wrote you a couple days later:

---

Hi Mark,

re: scales: a’ight … cool, man. We’ll leave it at that.

re: earnings … I’ve confused by your response. You say 179 is crap? would you rather not have it? I’ve said that you’ve earned 179 more on the wager model since the change verse the RevShare model. So the change has, at least thus far, put more in your pocket than the RevShare model would have. I can see your past months with us which were ~$Xk … but you have to understand that you wouldn’t have had numbers like that on the RevShare model in recent months either … to reiterate: you’ve actually earned $179 more from the players in your account…. not $179 in total (if that’s what you thought I meant).

Anyway … I’m not telling you to love it, hate it, hug it, slap it … just telling you the facts.

I’d love to churn some larger numbers with you again … if you look at your active players report, you can see there are X active players. If you want to get the benefits of the model it requires 1 of 2 things … players who play to the average (which is possible, but bang on the average is unlikely, IMHO) or more players … if you an chuck 20 decent players at this account, it will do very well for you. That said, I appreciate that takes a leap of faith on your part which you may or may not be willing to do given that you’re unhappy about the whole situation. Obviously the decision is yours … I’m just putting the info at your disposal to make your educated decision.

Here if ya need me
Ryan

---

[Anonymous]

Goldfinger wrote:

The true wager model is a blatant attempt to reduce commissions and it has worked! I say, leave sonner rather than later.

It’s not a ‘blatant’ attempt … people are posting in this thread saying they are making more money. Obviously not everybody is making less money.

[Anonymous]

Diceman wrote:

Hmm really… seems like one of my and a few others complaint.

I am not not happy knowing I am not the only one who doesn’t quite get
what the hell happened to my affiiliates….both Integrity and Adriches….

but its nice to know I am not alone I guess.

[Anonymous]

Ryan wrote:

This is a different issue to the wager model opt-out.

Unfortunately, you guys aren’t alone. The cook’s merger was the first merger this company did and our call center was NOT able to handle the demand of all those players. As a result, some players got miffed and went elsewhere. That’s the company’s loss as well as the affiliate’s loss and was obviously not intentional.

That said, we did learn from our mistakes and our call center is now over 5 times the size it was and has had considerable resources poured in to it over the past year.

unfortunately….that doesn’t make me feel any better…
the reasons I no longer play at Captain’s and now no longer play at Phoenician only have been backed up by the reason we no longer promote Casino Rewards or the casinos we worked so hard to build a player base at in the past.

Funny how you explain how all my players stopped playing with me is the way I feel I opted out of Casino Rewards as both a player and an affiliate…
I went with the smart decision.

the disappointment though is hard to come to terms with…
big big loss of 2 great affiliate programs….
lost to one we never ever had to deal with before it was forced upon us
when the takeover transpired.

[Anonymous]

Not Amused wrote:

I am not not happy knowing I am not the only one who doesn’t quite get
what the hell happened to my affiiliates….both Integrity and Adriches….

but its nice to know I am not alone I guess.

Your ‘affiliates’? Did you mean players?

If so, as I said … your players are all associated with your affiliate account … I don’t know exactly why your particular player/players stopped playing. However, as I said, support did get backed up and it’s my personal feeling this could explain it.

[Author]

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