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If the whole point of the conversation was that he would be worse off under Obama’s tax plan because he “is making 250k” then surely the whole conversation started by Wurzelbacher was completely ridiculous or am I missing something?
@allfreechips 183778 wrote:
wow..
So the answer obama gave was a plant? And when you see Biden and Obama laughing that a plumer can make 250K the next day you would rather beat up on Joe?
Bunch of ObamaBots arent we?
I don’t have a problem with Obama’s answer. It’s the desparate folks that want to make him look like a ‘socialist’ which is a joke considering BUSH ‘socialized’ our National Banks! :roflmao:
Yea, I know you didn’t not agree with it. You don’t stand behind that lying idiot in office now, but have a ‘pre-conceived’ opinion that Obama is going to destroy America? I hope those that think like you can manage to live with it IF Obama does become our next President.
I’d rather be a ObamaBot instead of a McPalinBot like you. :tongue:
lol, I give up
just keep yourself plugged into MSNBC and you wont feel the slight pinch later in life.
when you say the point was Jow would be better off with Obama’s plan now your all missing the point. Joe like every other American should be shooting for bigger piece where he will be getting screwed by Obama’s plan. Then part two is Obama saying he wants to take Joe’s cash at that point and write a welfare check in his name for someone else. That is the issue.
@allfreechips 183790 wrote:
lol, I give up
Not so fast buddy, we still have five days to go. Don’t stop working on me now. hehe :hattip:
I think the jury is out on how many pathologically optimistic people with their heads in the clouds will follow Joe’s logic. I mean you’ve really got to look on the bright side if you believe, politics aside, that you can increase your wage more than six fold amidst one of the worst economic crises in history?
Also I find it slightly comical that someone who posses the gift of magically making it from 40k to 250k+ within a short space of time can not get over giving up 3% of his salary? I.e. someone who has the capacity to produce a 600%+ annual ROI on his own wage really worries about 3%? I very much doubt it!
It’s just those folks in cloud cockoo land and that constituency is becoming smaller by the day. Those are the people on annual wages of 15k who took out 100k mortgages and are now all surprised that it went so horribly wrong – DOH! :wink-wink
Ok Chips, you win, i’ll start campaining with this slogan:
Vote Obama, for the Socialism You Had under Bill Clinton
There, now it’s accounting for all his horrible tax increases and his goal of spreading the wealth.
Keep crying socialism, it’s pretty funny that anyone who actually looks at the facts and American history would think that Obama’s tax plans are in anyway radical.
I dont recall bill sending checks to people who dont pay income tax paid for by people that do? send me a link please
Also Bill Clinton had the internet buble, so you need to pray for that as well!
@allfreechips 183822 wrote:
I dont recall bill sending checks to people who dont pay income tax paid for by people that do? send me a link please
Well here are a few links for ya. :hattip:
Mr. Obama apparently opened himself to the charge by proposing to let the temporary tax cuts passed under President Bush expire on schedule after 2010 — but only for individuals making more than $200,000, or families making more than $250,000. His plan would raise the top two tax brackets from 33 percent and 35 percent to 35 percent and 39.6 percent, respectively. Those higher rates are the ones in effect during the 1990s, a decade of robust capitalism, not socialism.
“I’m not giving tax cuts to folks who don’t work, I’m giving tax cuts to people who do work. John McCain is so out of touch with the struggles you are facing that he must be the first politician in history to call a tax cut for working people ‘welfare.'”It is true that the Obama refundable tax credits plan does benefit people who are not paying federal income taxes. But, Obama’s tax credits go to people who pay payroll taxes, even if they are too low-income to pay federal income taxes. The Obama campaign says most working people pay more in payroll taxes than income tax.
“The only ‘welfare’ in this campaign is John McCain’s plan to give another $200 billion in tax cuts to the wealthiest corporations in America – including $4 billion in tax breaks to big oil companies that ran up record profits under George Bush,” Obama continued, “That’s who John McCain is fighting for.”
The earned income tax credit has been around since 1975, it was expanded under reagan, bush and clinton, because it’s designed to help poor people who work. They don’t make enough to pay anything but social security tax, so the socialist government of the US has been giving them money for over 30 years.
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96406,00.html
You keep ignoring the fact that income taxes started as a way to “soak the rich”, then they became a to transfer wealth to the poor, it’s always been that way, obama isn’t any different and his numbers aren’t any different. You just have a very selective memory and don’t seem to think the IRS every made transfer payments and that this is a new idea that Obama proposes. it’s not.
This link shows the payouts since 1997, when BC was in office and they’ve gotten larger, faster under George Bush:
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=177571,00.htmlIt never bothered McCain until Obama started kicking his ass 4 weeks ago.
Edited to Add:
You republicans love to fight minimum wage and worker rights so you can have cheap labor and no responsibilities as employers. Fine, then you better get used to giving out welfare. You can’t have a stable society with an underclass living at or beneath subsistence levelsI believe in the Obama tax plan there is also a $3k tax credit for any new full time employees a small business hires.
However, the Democratic idelogy is logically flawed. On one hand they’re preaching about depressed wages, (which is true btw as my starting high tech job pay rate today is the same as it was in 1998, which is why I now have web sites)
Although it has not come up in this election if the Democrats win the White House, Congress and the Senate they will surely pass the controversial immigration bill that was such a hot issue last year.
They will give the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship or at least allow them into the system. We all know corporations take advantage of cheap foreign labor to keep wages down. Bill Gates has said on more than one occasion he’d like unlimited H1 Visas.
However, McCain also supported the comprehensive immigration bill until public outcry to secure the borders first made him backoff. He said he “got the message”. Obama may be reasoned with but I know Pelosi and Reed can’t be.
I don’t look at the Obama “welfare checks” as a liability like Joe the Plummer. I see it as an investment. 99% of that money will get dumped into local economies. How can stimulating local economies be a bad thing?
If wasnt so impatient id just say lets wait and see what happens lol..
Bill Gates has said on more than one occasion he’d like unlimited H1 Visas.
skilled immigrants aren’t the problem with H1 visas, but rather the fact that 1) employers lie about whether they can find the local talent 2) that the visa is tied to the employer and not the immigrant, meaning they’re not free to participate in the market. That’s what reduces jobs and brings down wages, this pipeline of cheap replacement workers who have to leave the country if they lose that job. IF the really was a shortage of talent it’s best that the imported workers are free to shop around.
Any of you Reagan fans? He granted amnesty to 3 million illegals in 1986. Are you saying that Obama’s Immigration policy is Reagan Like?
@AmCan 183840 wrote:
skilled immigrants aren’t the problem with H1 visas, but rather the fact that 1) employers lie about whether they can find the local talent 2) that the visa is tied to the employer and not the immigrant, meaning they’re not free to participate in the market. That’s what reduces jobs and brings down wages, this pipeline of cheap replacement workers who have to leave the country if they lose that job. IF the really was a shortage of talent it’s best that the imported workers are free to shop around.
Might not be to wise this day and age to give free rein to those entering the country.
A job taken is a job taken whether it’s tied to the sponsor (employer) or freely found in the classified.The problem is about 43% are visa overstayers and end up out of the system which puts a strain on state resources which are passed on to those legally in the system. Another issue is they shifted the pool from a set of certain countries to a set of other countries to diverify.
Any of you Reagan fans? He granted amnesty to 3 million illegals in 1986. Are you saying that Obama’s Immigration policy is Reagan Like?
http://www.otisgraham.com/otis_graham_writings/art_ronald_reagans_big_mistake.html
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/
For Reagan it ended up being roughly 5 million from what I understand, but there were regulations in place but as usual they went unenforced. I’m sure the same will happen when the Dems get control. However, McCain backs the same Bush plan.
Generally when the immigration topic comes up and any of these politian’s use the word “comprehensive” as their first word I’m leary.
I hear that Canada has had a very successful guest worker program for the past 30 years. I’d be interested if anyone from Canada can comment on it. Obama wants to revisit the terms of NAFTA but Canada is not to happy about it.
Immigration is a tough one for me as I believe that everyone has the right to the land of opportunity, but it has to be done right and well thought out so that we all benefit. It does not always have to be black or white. I have to do more research.
Overcrowding:
If we let them in, then it’s our fault to see that that problem is fixed FIRST. Then we need to find those that are here illegally and verify that they have not committed any crimes and require them to become legal citizens. They take the jobs that lot of americans will not take so it helps us in the long run.
Cost Incurred:
Would it be fair to have them pay a tax for taking advantage of these services? As far as crime, if they are not scared of being here and have a chance at a job then maybe that would decrease.
Joe the Plumber is a smart man. :hattip:
It doesn’t take a genius to set aside the “media hype” and all the games the Democrats set up and see that McCain’s plans are actually much better all around. I mean, it’s common sense…
People are just voting for Obama mostly as a “statement” of their dislike for Bush without even thinking of anything else. Heck, if Israel has to attack Iran prevent them getting the bomb, Obama would probably just condemn them (to make the rest of the world like him for the celebrity he is) and not even get involved in a war to defense our allies in fear of looking like Bush to appeal to the Democrats.
It’s so easy, Joe the Plumber can figure it out…
