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Guys, this is a hot potato because pretty much no one likes Itay, mostly because of his past dealings, and while the structure of this venture could be good, it leaves too much room for dealings with the dark side.
Now, they did state that they got rid of Cpays. That shows that they consider CAP folk to be crucial to their survival.
If you look at the survival of for instance Pearl Gaming, who also relied on these playtechs, and who spammed CAP with an equal number of posts, you’ll see that working with these programs on a master affiliate basis is not by any means stable. They drop the master aff at the slightest hint of disobedience. Karim can tell you his tale of woe.
Like Karim, Itay put his everything into this new project and is now pretty dependent on these groups. My prediction is that a year from now, most of us will have forgotten b4.
Re. his presence here and now, does this contract have a time limitation or is Itay to get CAP presence for eternity?
Business is business and a contract is a contract, and we all (and the programs!!!) need to stick by our contracts, or we have chaos and no recourse against anyone in this business. One can’t just selectively honor contracts.
Lou’s analogy to the restaurant is a valid one, and we don’t have to support Itay and we can voice our concerns publically. There are several programs here I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole.
This basic issue has come up before of course, and different people dislike different programs, some of which I love. It can’t be made right for everyone.
What we can do is support the Guard Dog, which points out flaws in programs.
I also like the recent introduction of voting for favorite programs, and I would love to see this expanded into regular evaluations of programs by affs via some voting interface that can keep people’s names anonymous. It would be a great way to allow affs to communicate how they see the performance/ethics etc of programs.
There are plenty of ways for a community to peacefully express opinions and in effect lend support to good programs, and bad ones will drop by the wayside.
Anyway, it all boils down to the fact that Itay has a contract and he is here until it runs out. Lou just didn’t know about Itay’s background. Itay did pretty much keep to himself for years and just recently burst on the scene.
Contracts need to be respected, and we can and will find other ways to insure no one gets hurt, like we always do.
@kwblue 137752 wrote:
B4 is here when they are the 1 organization that could quickly drain a lot of our income. And they could do it ALL with BH affiliates.
This worries me too.
The fact that B4 is affiliating only with ethically-challenged groups is a concern. These are the groups that look the other way when BH activity occurs. Groups that have historically treated their affiliates like shit.
Why isn’t B4 partnered up with CWC or CPS or Rewards?
Could it be that the ethical standards of CWC, CPS, Rewards, etc. are too high? Did B4 intentionally pick slimy outfits that would look the other way if BH activity occurs?
I’m pretty much opposed to anything that financially helps the rogue Playtechs, 888, Party, Sportingbet, etc. I’d love to see them all put out of business. These groups give the industry a bad reputation, and they hurt fellow affiliates (friends in some cases), and that pisses me off.
My personal philosophy is that I think everyone should work with ethical, affiliate friendly groups, in order to better the industry as a whole. In the long run this is the smart thing to do. Helping Cpays and other trash groups conflicts with this idea; these groups only hurt the industry.
I think rev share is better than CPA (as do most affiliates), and I hate to see newbies duped into CPA deals, because ultimately they will earn far less than they could have with rev share. (With casinos, anyway). Maybe I should just look out for #1 from now on, and quit worrying about who takes CPA deals. I don’t like the thought of that, though; I’d rather help out and make friends along the way. Such a phenomenal industry this is; everyone is a competitor, yet we share info and help each other out…
Anyway, all of that said — I do understand Prof’s point about CAP being a business, needing to feed families, pay bills, etc.
At the same time, I know there are people out there (me included) who could potentially be financially affected as a result of BH activity.
Quote:At the same time, I know there are people out there (me included) who could potentially be financially affected as a result of BH activity.We all are financially affected, myself included. Remember I am an affiliate first and foremost. 80% of my income comes from my portals and I was devastated by Black Hatters targeting my sites long ago. Because of who I am and because of CAP and because we condemn Black Hatters I am one of their favorite targets. I hate the mother fuckers and would drown them in a bucket of horse piss if I could, but the son of a bitches arent going anywhere and they do work with all the programs we do. Dont kid yourself and think they dont.
@Professor 137773 wrote:
We all are financially affected, myself included. Remember I am an affiliate first and foremost. 80% of my income comes from my portals and I was devastated by Black Hatters targeting my sites long ago. Because of who I am and because of CAP and because we condemn Black Hatters I am one of their favorite targets. I hate the mother fuckers and would drown them in a bucket of horse piss if I could, but the son of a bitches arent going anywhere and they do work with all the programs we do. Dont kid yourself and think they dont.
I am equally targeted, as of late by proxy hijacks which are a pain to fight and if I didn’t have such loyal visitors I would be dead in the water now.
The playtech groups (not all of them) are the ones most fequently found in search engine spam, which is public and therefor easy to trace. Underhanded attacks such as proxy hijacks are impossible to trace to the true origin.
All of us here regularly post against CPA and must continue to do so. Programs will always offer it, and we will always need to warn others about it.
Well we just have to stick to our warnings against CPA deals as we usually do like Dom said and just hope that Itay and this whole b4 thing just goes away soon ..lol
@Engineer 137771 wrote:
Why isn’t B4 partnered up with CWC or CPS or Rewards?
B4P has been trawling round the casinos for some time asking for $xxx CPA up front with no guarantees. That’s probably why they (and others) declined. At least one program I talked to said they were worried about being associated with the people involved.
It occurs to me that CAP Euro might reveal a lot of information to a lot of people.
Good information in the hours I was MIA
I guess it is probably better that the contract be honored above anything. Besides, with all of us so dead set against it – just about every post by Harvey will have an equal post about how wrong it is That’s enough for me.
Hi all,
this is an exert from another forum.
I think it makes some points though I might be wrong and I’m sure I’ll be corrected if so.
please understand I have no interest in this program….. but did think if any of this is true it can really hurt us in the long run …..at least those joining b4
First of all this is strictly a third party CPA program and the rates suck like a Mach 5 Hoover.
1-10 is 50 dollars, 11 to 30 is 65 and only 85 dollars for over 30 new players in a month.
Secondly, you will not exsist as far as the affiliate program knows. Everything is tagged to B4Playing, so you are essentially making B4Playing indispensible to the casinos, and lose any weight you might have with them yourself.
B4Playing is just another affiliate, so you are trusting that they will track fair, and pay you.The main thrust of their sales pitch to affiliates is that once a player is in their system, you will get credit for the player at all of the properties that have signed up with B4Playing. Initially I thought the Casino Program would have to collude with B4Playing, and I suppose they still do in a way, but it is B4Playing that will be screwing around with WHO gets credit for WHO.
In theory, once a player has downloaded the program, all activity would go thru that software, but we all know good and well that people have multiple computers, they crash and are replaced, they loose passwords and just reinstall, people delete software sometimes and reinstall later, etc., etc..
Over the years, these things will happen many times to many people. Many probably go straight to the site, and just redownload at which point they would belong to B4Playing, OR they just redownload it from the first ad they see which probably WON’T be yours.
So what happens then? Would you trust them, or their system to flag those, and put them back under you?
I don’t think so. Especially if that player redownloaded direct from B4Playing._______
Brightshare is in there, so is Fortune Lounge, and Referback.
I imagine Fortune Lounge is there via Slick Street Marketing, and Referback via Forward Slash. Those are the respective Media buy companies for each place. Brightshare’s might be thru Spiral Solutions. So, it’s possible that actual affiliate programs for have no idea whatsoever that this is going on.I really can’t believe any of these groups would allow themselves to be part of this shady marketing
Very disappointing. Has anyone contacted Lloyd or Shane about this? Or whomever is in charge at FA?1-10 is 50 dollars, 11 to 30 is 65 and only 85 dollars for over 30 new players in a month.
Interesting seeing as they are asking the casinos for over $200 CPA per player.
@Simmo! 137935 wrote:
Interesting seeing as they are asking the casinos for over $200 CPA per player.
Why am I not surprised?
Itay is back with his 1 word posts again today… How many is that today?????
He is really a low-life piece of… work.
He’s baaaaack! Help! I’m drowning in a sea of worthless one-line posts! :tongue:
Any thoughts on why he’s suddenly back with a vengeance, after posting barely anything at all for the past few months? :tooconfus
I was thinking the same thing. He must be link-spamming using his signature link. He is a freakin’ idiot.
