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To decertify 888. This is dragging on and on and on. Unless they update their T & C’s and react immediately and efficiently banning every individual from ever being allowed to promote their brands, who conducts in scraping – They are then not able to provide us what we reasonably request.
888 rule the serps in google, primarily as a result off the back of these shitty theives that steal our content.
Lou, what has happened with the conference call? Any progress? Are they the ones stalling on the call, putting it back?
It is now time for us all to act. Regardless of our differences, all of us are being affected one way or another by 888.
If we do not take action against them, then the likes of CPAYS etc will be given a green light to continue their illegal activities as well.
I agree.
Warren met with Shellys boss at Adtech in San Francisco and the basic response was they were following up on this as best they could and that they were making an honest good faith effort to weed out the affiliates that were doing the scraping. They felt we were not giving them a chance to do that and that expecting them to be able to throw a switch and have it all go away in an instant wasnt realistic, it would/will take time. Unfortunately they let this go on for so long people are just not patient enough to allow that to happen.
I am at a loss of what to do. They claim we arent being fair and that when they do make any progress or effort we shout them down and say its nothing.
We say you are moving too slowly or just making a token effort.The truth lies some where between those two extremes.
Like I have said all along I am certain if we decertify them we lose communication and they wont be motivated to make even the baby steps they are doing now. This is a pisser to deal with.
I think what we will most likely do is suspend their certification and leave open the possibility of a return if adequate measures are taken on their part.
Then the question becomes what ARE adequate measures?
I think what we will most likely do is suspend their certification and leave open the possibility of a return if adequate messures are taken on their part.
I think this is the good and sensible path to follow.
Then the question becomes what ARE adequate measures?
Simple. They write into their Affiliate Program T & C’s or words to the effect of:
If it is proven you utilise stolen content on any of the sites you use to promote our brands, your affiliate account will be be closed and all monies owed to date retained. You will also no longer be able to promote 888 and associated brands in the future.
It would also be good if they diverted some of their vast marketing resources into actually vetting the sites of webmasters who sign up to their program, before allowing them to actively earn with them.
The reason they are dragging their feet is because they themselves are very likely behind the scraping. However, unfortunately as we have no proof identifying Cassava as the registrant of any of the domains which use stolen content, we cannot say this publically.
Also another point Lou. They need to explain why they themselves are instructing their employees to spam blogs?
This activity needs to stop as well.
Prof / Webzcas
Decertifying a program should not mean complete removal of communications.
If we believe that the program is honest for players, and accurately recording affiliate stats then it has a lot going for it. We don’t think that there is anything wrong with that side of the businesss right?
All they have to do to be “re-certified” is to stop paying scrapers, spammers, plagarists and thiefs … which on the face of it does seem a pretty reasonable request of a legitimate business.
:shhh:So it would make good sense that they retain a forum here with a view to achieving re-certification … the tricky issue would be setting a measureable and quantifiable target to say that they were doing enough.
Remember 888.con are not a tin-pot little outfit. They are web savvy, have significant IT resources and could quickly weed out (say) 80% of the problem … if they REALLY wanted to.
My “proof” for this assertion is to look at all the legitimate web properties that they have. And imagine the files mangement, SEO, and vast array of tasks that they mange to complete.
Webzcas suggestion that they vet sites / registrants on CPA is a good one, as is reworking the T&C’s. But those are details. And I’m sure that 888.con know exactly how they could stop these people.
(total guesswork on my part – but I suspect that they could start by simply checking out their top 100 CPA affiliates – how many do YOU think would be undesirables …)
sigh.gifI know it’s not a democracy – and I don’t get a vote – but if I did – they’d be revoked and working on an action plan for re-certification that would involve retaining the forum.
I’m happy for 888.com to be #1 on the net … as long as they stop using unethical and illegal 888.con practices …
:omg:Just my 5 cents
(they’ve discontinued the 2 cent coin over here)
:hehe:They are web savvy, have significant IT resources and could quickly weed out (say) 80% of the problem … if they REALLY wanted to.
That they do. When I was IT Manager for Ladbrokes, they showed me around their soon to be populated comms room, which was being finished prior to them moving out to Gibraltar.
Over 80 Server Racks alone!!! Which is phenomenal for a casino. Even taking into account their very large customer base, room for switches, routers, firewalls and patch panels.
It was like a mini aircraft hanger.
Paul is right. They have extremely top notch IT People. For them to solve the problem could be realised very easily.
I have had the feeling that they are just stringing us along as long as possible for quite some time. I also believe that they have no intention to stop scraping. They feel it is a viable business model and are just working on ways to insulate themselves from the backlash.
I for one don’t care wether they are de-certified or not. There are certified programs that I won’t affiliate with and there are a few programs that aren’t certified that I would affiliate with. If a business person makes the mistake of choosing a program because it is certified here or anywhere else without investigating the program for themselves, then we can’t help them anyway, that is just poor business on their part, not CAPs. Please understand that I do understand the value of having certified programs here at CAP, especially because it provides a solid communication ground.
The question to me is will de-certifying them cause other programs, like CPays, to reconsider their path and stop scrapers? If it may help, then it would make sense, but I do not believe that 888 is going to change.
I hope I am wrong.
I was posting the same time the 2 posts before me were going up, so i missed one thing.
I understand the problems with CPA, but I don’t belive that all scrapers are on CPA. (I could be wrong) The reason I feel this way is there are some very intelligent scrapers out there, and if we can figure out that revshare will make us more money than CPA, then some of them can also. If I was a scraper, I would be on revshare. I like residual.
pokermonger wrote:I for one don’t care wether they are de-certified or not. There are certified programs that I won’t affiliate with and there are a few programs that aren’t certified that I would affiliate with.If a business person makes the mistake of choosing a program because it is certified here or anywhere else without investigating the program for themselves, then we can’t help them anyway, that is just poor business on their part, not CAPs.
This is where I differ a bit.
Certification means approved. It means that they’ve passed some sort of standard and are declared fit for partnership. It means that CAP says they’re a good choice for webmasters.
It’s a specific choice by the owners of CAP to say this program is good … and a lot of new affilaites (and exisiting affiliates) do rely on CAPs judgement.
(or have I got that wrong?)
Maybe I’m reacting to the word – but Professor if you had to give the 888.con program a one word description right now – would “certified” really be it ?
(I have to stop now – as I’ll get on the ethical bandwagon and I promised that I wouldn’t – this 888.con crowd know how to get inside my head … )
:Ohno:Sorry guys.
:unhappy:No harm at all in differing views and opinions, thats why I like CAP so much. I just look at certified meaning that I have a good place to communicate publicly with programs and they have went through the effort to become certified, but you are right. Many people do base business decisions on someone elses recommendation. I just try not to do that in my business.
If they are de-certified or suspended they do not retain a forum. We also do not arbitrate for them or assist affiliates with that program.
It would hardly be fair for our certified partners if we did that and they would have no incentive to maintain certification if they received the same basic services without supporting the community. So thats not going to happen. If they go, they go.
If you guys want to maintain a thread about them in the free for all area you are welcome to tar and feather them there, but they will not be granted the ability to respond.
As has been pointed out the casino itself is generally well respected. The affiliate program has tens of thousands of otherwise honest affiliates who are happy to work with them. I personally have earned well over a million dollars with Casino On Net and they paid me without incident. The only issue with them is they are not strident in chasing down these scrapers and they are probably guilty of blog spamming.
The only real benefit of decertifying them is to set an example to other programs that we dont like these type of SEO practices. Thats really about all that will happen. That and another thing not so good. I believe 888 will give the scrapers a green light to continue on since there is no real check and balance in place anymore.
If it were up to me I would decertify them asap. Impressive IT departments don’t impress me much. Scraping can be takin care of in several ways, spam reports ect.. if all esle fails you nuke the site. I am in no position to so yet, but will be. But perhaps this discussion could happen in Miami.
I agree with thegooner, get them out of here. Perhaps put up a section for programs not to promote. greek39
We are currently under DDOS attack. I am not surprised. This is probably a warning as the attackers are scrapers.
Here are a few if the sites involved, all of them are registered and hosted by one provider which should look familiar. Our attornies will be following up on this later today. Here’s what I received fom the tech team:
Quote:There is a fairly week DDOS attack going on on the site right now, but it looks like it’s gaining momentum.Do you know these guys:
http://casino-gratuit.cfr8.com
http://online-casinos.cfr8.com
http://play-blackjack.game71.com
http://play-casino-games.online62.comWe are having bursts of hits comming in from each of these sites, most likely as an attack and they have managed to create some time-out situations. I will add their IP addresses to the block list, unless we have some legitimate advertising on these sites.
All of the domains are registered anonymously and hosted here:
Administrative Contact [292095]:
Moniker Privacy Services [email protected]
Moniker Privacy Services
20 SW 27th Ave.
Suite 201
Pompano Beach
FL
33069
US
Phone: +1.9549848445
Fax: +1.9549699155Billing Contact [292095]:
Moniker Privacy Services [email protected]
Moniker Privacy Services
20 SW 27th Ave.
Suite 201
Pompano Beach
FL
33069
US
Phone: +1.9549848445
Fax: +1.9549699155Technical Contact [292095]:
Moniker Privacy Services [email protected]
Moniker Privacy Services
20 SW 27th Ave.
Suite 201
Pompano Beach
FL
33069
US
Phone: +1.9549848445
Fax: +1.9549699155Lou,
I would make this public knowledge if I were you. Or at least the likes of Max at WOL and Bryan at CM who have threads concerning this issue currently active in their forums.
I am contacting my host now. To be on the safe side.
Lou is it just one IP or a specific range of IP’s at the moment?
I have posted lots on the 888.com thread in regards Moniker Privacy Services, they are connected to 888.com. greek39
I had 400,000 attacks yesterday from the Urkraine
Don’t make it public, let it come and keep it private. The scrapers are pissed!!
