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BTW.
I received a mail from my 888 affiliate manager who asked me to “remove the blacklist article” LOL ?
Other big authority sites are being targetted which are not on that list but have strong google serps, such as gonegambling.com and onlinecasinoreports.com
After taking a very quick look at this, it appears to me that these sites were not ‘targeted’, it looks more like they were caught up in the ‘net’, but I am just going on hunches and guesses right now about this.
@Casinolisten]Yep….and I already have! :devil:Same here. Pacific Poker is part of 888 I rogued them along with Casino on Net.
Casinolisten wrote:BTW.I received a mail from my 888 affiliate manager who asked me to “remove the blacklist article” LOL ?
Geez!!!!!
Blackmail? Asking kindly and attacking the dickens out of your SERPS?
If we target Pacific poker next, 888 is going to really really hurt.
There are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of these sites clogging the gambling searches now.
This is hurting the entire industry. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if google got sick of this mess and closed the gambling searches down entirely.
888 should be sued!
Janet wrote:and if a vendor doesn’t want the traffic it takes 10 minutes for the scrapper to point it elswhere (there are over 1200 vendors out there)I don’t know where you get the number 1200, but clearly that number is incorrect. There certainly are not 1200 casino affiliate programs out there to choose from. There are perhaps 200, and of those 200, maybe 50 of them are decent, above board, profitable programs.
Janet wrote:Lastly, it is not the vendors responsibility to determine whether a site in their network is acting within the fair use laws. Lawyers can barely determine this, no less affiliate managers!Actually, it is the vendors’ responsibility, and many of them do take swift action when something is brought to their attention.
Many programs do have clauses in their T&Cs that prohibit spamming, scraping, and other unethical activities. These programs know that they will make more money in the long run by partnering with ethical, non-blackhat webmasters. When there is an issue, they deal with it by forcing the rogue affiliate to fix the problem, or they just suspend the account.
If the blackhatter wants to point his traffic somewhere else, he can. Eventually, however, he will run out of profitable options. Surely it isn’t profitable to promote (1) a shady program that may or may not pay its affiliates, or (2) a program whose casinos are so widely blacklisted, even your own grandmother has heard about it.
Regarding the act of scraping snippets of information from websites — this is not acceptable behavior. It is unethical to use someone else’s work to make a profit for yourself. If you rank above my site for a unique phrase that I created, then you are essentially stealing traffic from me. And no, I am not talking about a generic phrase like “online casino” — I am talking about unique words such as “drawdead” or “captainsfreecasinos.”
The bottom line is this —
All of us here are competitors, but we all want to compete in an ethical work environment — i.e. without scraping, spamming, stealing, sabotaging, etc. We are an extremely strong-minded, willful group, and we bring in a lot of money to the most profitable casino affiliate programs.
We are going to support the programs that condemn unethical activities, and we are going to stop supporting programs that condone unethical activities. This is a simple numbers game. There are more white hats than black, and in time, the programs that condone blackhat tactics will go out of business. Or, if they are have any business sense at all, they will change their tune and clean things up before it is too late.
That is my “final solution and reality check.”
Very well put, engineer!!!
I second every word of that!
lots0 wrote:As much as I like Bonusgeeks ideas, I feel that doing things his way is maybe not the best way to go right now…
I was pretty hot when I wrote that. I, like everyone else here who is immersed in this mess get rather upset when other people directly impact my livelihood. So what else can we do here, they are not going to stop this unless they have fear of something. Whether it be an affiliate program dropping them indefinitely, or some other ideas I have, fear has got to become a part of this equation somewhere or they will never ever stop.
Until this big mess, I was under the assumption that it was a myth how blackhatters can hurt your serps. And it is extremely disheartning to learn that all of our hard work can easily be negated by just a few blackhatters who have it in for us.
All efforts to continue to grow my business almost seem futile at this point, as I don’t have the trust factor, and because these blackhatters know how to get me penalized or whatever it is they do to hurt me, then obviously google makes me guilty by association by dropping half of my site.
I have been submitting the spammer sites to google as suggested by Dom, for not just mine but other webmasters who have been affected. But I am unclear as to what other measures I can take to protect my site. Janet had mentioned that we should protect our content from crawlers that may steal it. How can we do that?
lots0 wrote:Added, it would also be nice if we could figure out a way to help the smaller sites that have been hurt by trying to do the right thing
It would really be nice if anyone could summarize any other measures we can take to protect ourselves from these thieves.Bonusgeek wrote:All efforts to continue to grow my business almost seem futile at this point, as I don’t have the trust factor, and because these blackhatters know how to get me penalized or whatever it is they do to hurt me, then obviously google makes me guilty by association by dropping half of my site.Some of this is the latest google update. It could be that all of your problem is that, we can’t really tell. Many people lost lots of listings in that update.
We still need to remove the congestion from the engines in any case, this problem has the potential of serously impairing the industry.
Google does seem to be reacting and removing some of these sites, and I am also trying to pull some strings behind the scenes to try and get that accomplished.
Dominique wrote:Some of this is the latest google update. It could be that all of your problem is that, we can’t really tell. Many people lost lots of listings in that update.Oddly enough nothing would make me happier than knowing my rankings are more less a result of bad seo rather than a blackhatter effecting my serps.
ok, all, it seems to me that after doing a lot of research that a scrapper CAN AND HAVE THE ABILITY to hurt your site by doing 2 things:
1. copy a whole page
or/and
2. link to your page with the intention to hurt you (there are several ways to do that, not every link can hurt you, it needs some specific properties)from my research copying a unique phrase (like MyMadeUpTerm) and using it in regards to the LSI algo, it can just help you, but if you are REALLY intrested in ranking for this term and a scrapper ranks above you (which can happen if he is linking to you in trying to hurt you from his site or other sites of his or he is using a much better infrastructure), so if you really want him out then you should file a TRADEMARK on that phrase, once you are approved, then you may (and it is not always based on what my lawyers told me) have a case to notify him not to use this term and if he does not comply then you can file a DCMA to google to remove the offending page.
my lawyers tell me that even if you do not plan on filing a DCMA but do want to “own” your made up term then you should try and file a trademark, this will protect your domain name and reources more.now, if he links to your site (you can check this with the link: in google , but better check it in yahoo and msn as well) and trying to hurt you by doing so , then complain to google about the domain.
it may well be as, members here said that it is a “personal” thing against sites which made complaints about these .pl sites, i don’t know, but i am running against these guys (i think it is the same group, also .pl stuff) in other industries I am playing as well and the things there are much worse, i will not specify the methods that they are using there (last time I was too specific – I got many IM and PM from moderators and members here, telling me I am giving bad ideas to people and this is why you have seen so many edits in the 1st few pages of this thread … ) but i sure hope it will stop.
now regarding the PPC rev. vs. vendors etc. , i really do not know, pick what ever you feel right, since i think they always have the ppc alternative, i do not know if it will help, but if you want to try, go for it.
regarding the 1200 casino vendors , this is from the industry d.b. , sure not all of them have affiliate programs many of them just buy media on PPC or directly using media buy agencies , but the number is not importent here, what is importent is that these guys have alternatives to where they are getting the money from .
and i will repeat my sentence BUT IN THE OPOSITE DIRECTION,In regard the scrappers attetide to get “revenge” or “wanted dead or alive” scenario towards your sites, there is an old saying that states: “every time you seek revenge, bring two shovels.” Not only will you dig a grave for the one you seek, but you will dig one for yourself as well. Revenge does not work!
if someone is in contact with them, or if they are reading this forum, i sure hope this will be communicated to them as well.
one last thing, if your site is being listed in DMOZ or any of the big directories, these directories are scapped to hell , all the time, google knows it and he has filters for that, so for almost any site listed in DMOZ if you do a backlink check you will usually find mor ethen 10,000 backlinks just becouse dmoz pages are duplicated and scraped all the time.
I draw no distinction between blackhatter and malicious hacker. Stretching programming languages to suite their own malcious needs is a cyber crime in my opinion. For that reason alone I believe only one shovel is needed. Being a seo expert I am sure you appreciate what I am trying to comminicate here. This is my own personal view.
I have always been intrigued by so called “experts” I really don’t know what the word means. One who is good at seo I would expect one would be good at the opposite as well. Kinda like a good programmer, say for unix also knows its exploits as well. Unix is by far the grand daddy or “God” programming language in which on the other codes rests. Unix is the bed rock of the internet, however flawed it may be. Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritettie, and Douglas McRoy certainly did some amazing things back in the late 60’s and early seventies. But the Fortran language is interesting. java gives me the creeps nothing but a c++ copy. But then again, all programming languages are too some extent interconnected out of necessity. Perhaps this is why there are so many holes. This I feel most if not all the nasty exploits are derived.
Is there a solution for it, not a realistic one. Perhaps a reboot of the entire internet. The se’s will be always battling this internet paradox.
Thus far it has been a interesting discussion, some I find factual. I plan on posting more but i really needed to get this out. greek39^*26
I also find it very interesting how a markup language like HTML is so exploitable. A neet concept how the algo for google actually misreads, misinterprets, sending a website up the rankinkgs like a rocket.
Then again, this is a malcious act something I would not dare practice. It kinda goes against the hackerethic I follow. But I do find the concept interesting. I normally don’t talk about such issues here, never like being too specific on much.
The scripts written for the the blackhatter/malcious hacker community some are very interesting too bad most of my community hates them. I have so many of them some targeted for specific sites. The last one I saw was up for auction I think it was think Bodog.com. These people actually target specific sites.
I just wish all this stuff would stop, thats all I would like too see. There is no need burnning us honest webmasters all the time. We offer good quality information to the www. greek39^*14
You know Janet, I do not know you, but you seem to be of view that BH strategies are fair and perfectly legal. The internet doesn’t have a specific law to govern it, bacause applying that law can be quite complicated in a world of different laws.
Take note this is just my opinion based on many years in SEO and dealing with blackhats. Reading posts all over the web where people like Broadprospect (Ziv Dascalu) are leading a double life. I mention this specifically because we actually caught him out on one of the seo forums a couple of years ago I personally respect this Blackhat to be one of the best if not the best, I rate him even better than I rate Mick Sawyer.
Blackhats all have one thing in common. They are all fully aware that it might be difficult to proof that a specific person are responsible for the deeds,… having the world at their feet leading the double life of criminal and hero. They will often try to convince people that they are actually inocent and harmless little dweebs Yeezzzz makes me think of the typical mafia boss.
Everyone knows he is a murderer but nobody can proof it so he maintains he is a successfull business man. HAHAHAHAHA BUSINESS MAN! It just proofs he is mobster because he is a crappy business man! HAHAHAHAHA
I have been in the game a very long time and know how sick blackhats can be. My sites has been google bowled before for being so verbal about blackhats. They steal content of your site and will do it in such ways that legally they get away with it. My question is this. No matter where you get that content and from how many sites you steal it, it is the intention that is evil and makes blackhats evil.
After being in Special Forces for many years I am very stubburn when it comes to people pushing and threatening me, especialy in a non direct manner. I am sorry,… with the friends I have in the world… Those threats can actually be very hazardous to their health, but I do not walk around telling them that because one of the things I have learnt in life is, never threaten someone, you have nothing to proof by threatening someone as a threat is a sign of weakness.
Janet I asume the blackhat community are looking at this threat at the moment as I am to idiots people who always want to proof themself worthy. To those blackhats, you are worthy! Worthy of the darkside! But what you are doing is still wrong and there is no justification.
In regard the scrappers attetide to get “revenge” or “wanted dead or alive” scenario towards your sites, there is an old saying that states: “every time you seek revenge, bring two shovels.” Not only will you dig a grave for the one you seek, but you will dig one for yourself as well. Revenge does not work!
I agree with this analogy. I have also been toying whether to just pull back and remove my 888 rogue pages.
But seeing as I am now seeing even more sites trying to hurt my business and my site, I am going to crank up the pressure.
Whoever is using a shovel to TRY and damage my business, better watch out or they will be on the receiving end of my JCB. No threats, no warning. I see this as a direct attack on my livlihood. I suggest the individual(s) behind this attack google traffic power.
Moving onwards. I think all that have rogued 888 and are now subsequently under attack by this lowlife using .pl domains who is trying to bowl our sites, should raise the pressure on 888Holdings PLC.
To do this, let’s set up seperate pages roguing Pacific Poker and lest us not forget Reef Club – which has managed to slip under the radar.
If we then link all our individual pacific, 888 and reefclub rogue pages, not only will we rank highly for 888 casino. But we will then rank highly for terms such as Pacific Poker.
This is hurting 888 and I am of the belief they have kicked the backsides of the few individuals who have caused to put them in this position. Hence the attacks we are now seeing targetted against us.
If we can put further pressure on 888, by way of getting high profile coverage of their other brands being rogued. Perhaps they may neuter their dog once and for all.
