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@Carlo 128991 wrote:
I think the whole point of world trade is that it should be borderless. Also, since the USA, India, Japan (and other countries, including Antigua & Barbuda) are part of the WTO then they shouldn’t be allowed to build a wall around their country and prevent other members from benefiting from the global economy.
Exactly.
Also India has lost thousands of jobs due to UIGEA.
Either we have open, free trade or we don’t. If we don’t, then we abolish the World Trade Organization because there is no point in having anyone overseeing free trade.
We can go back to the dark ages and exclude the rest of the world and stop importing and exporting (actually they did that even in the dark ages) and live with only our own monopolies, or we can work with the rest of the world and be a decent world citizen.
I hear what you’re saying John and I certainly appreciate and understand it somewhat. I have family in California that are affecting by outsourcing hi-tech jobs from the States.
It’s a strange concept for a country to be part of an organization that is set up specifically to enhance and promote world trade yet cut them off when it is a considerable exports.
Antigua & Barbuda may have a funded ally in this in the shape/form of some high operator but I do think as a country they do have a case as do other countries.
I totally respect your point. I think maybe there has to be some agreement on these sanctions, perhaps by paying a subsidy of some sort back to the US. The answer is unknown to me.
This is a great thread and I am learning a lot about people’s thoughts on the matter and it is opening my eyes to other people’s feelings.
this is the current state of affairs:
These nations filed compensation claims:
EU, India, Canada, Australia, Antigua and Barbuda, Costa Rica and Macau.
Japan filed a letter of interest, they didn’t ask for compensation.
Its interesting to see Australia file for compensation, considering their current gaming laws.
The Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (IGA) was passed by the Commonwealth Parliament on 28 June 2001 and was given Royal Assent by the Governor-General on 11 July 2001. The passage of the IGA was an important element of the Government’s policy of preventing the escalation of the harmful effects of gambling on the Australian community.
The Offence
The IGA targets the providers of interactive gambling services, not their potential or actual customers. The IGA makes it an offence to provide an interactive gambling service to a customer physically present in Australia.
# This offence applies to all interactive gambling service providers, whether based in Australia or offshore, whether Australian or foreign owned.
# This offence carries a maximum penalty of $220,000 per day for individuals and $1.1 million per day for bodies corporate.
Interactive gambling services include those that are often described as ‘online casinos’ and usually involve using the Internet to play games of chance, or games of mixed chance and skill. Examples include roulette, poker, craps, online ‘pokies’ and blackjack. ‘Interactive gambling services’ are defined in section 5 of the IGA.
Yeah, but what agreement do they have through the WTO?
Countries trade off things, like you can pick my apples if I can pick your oranges. The US didn’t say no one could target them with online casinos until after they got in trouble.
No idea how that is for Australia.
Gambling laws in Australia, are they something like monopolies? I have heard of Canadian provincial control but an entire country? Nuts, actually even at a provincial level (where a province is similar to a US State) that’s pretty darned crazy.
Brings up another good point. There are other WTO members who have curtailed Gambling online like Austrailia and some like China dont have it at all. So why the uproar about the US not having it? Again, looks to some like typical countries looking for a Free Handout at the US Taxpayers expense. Countries like India and China has not had enough of a handout at the expense of Americans.
The difference is the US allows it inside its boarders..
But “Technically” speaking. No online. Only walk-in casino’s. Austrailia does have walk-in too soo….
@john1124 129197 wrote:
Brings up another good point. There are other WTO members who have curtailed Gambling online like Austrailia and some like China dont have it at all. So why the uproar about the US not having it? Again, looks to some like typical countries looking for a Free Handout at the US Taxpayers expense. Countries like India and China has not had enough of a handout at the expense of Americans.
Again, when countries join the WTO, they submit a list of trade requirements. They can say things like: everyone can sell apples in my country, but definitely no oranges.
These agreements are then binding, and there is a process to go through to change them.
We don’t know under what conditions these countries joined. I don’t have the time to research it, do you?
What we do know is that the US set no limits on online gambling and did not go through channels to get one in place. So now they are in breach of contract.
Breach of contract is not acceptable anywhere, anytime, in any jurisdiction and under any circumstances. Contracts are the backbone of human interaction and trade.
Depends upon the Protocol’s. If you look at wto.org. What are you asking and maybe I can look it up for you.
The actual services agreement was titled “recreational services” and nowhere was internet gambling mentioned. The Wire Act, the Travel Act and the Illegal Gambling Business Act are laws that carry stiff penalties. The WTO notion that the United States would agree to trade services deemed illegal by its own laws is absurd.
On contracts: Providing online gambling is illegal per U.S. law, thus any contract is unenforceable. Contracts based on illegal activity cannot be enforced. I believe this is true in most countries.
trade services deemed illegal by its own laws
That would hold true if it was so.
However, it is the “carve outs” in the bill that allow lotteries and horse racing online that are the trigger of all of this.
The WTO notion that the United States would agree to trade services deemed illegal by its own laws is absurd.
Maybe, but technically it is our soverign right.
I think everyone is missing the point of what I have been trying to say. We (WTO, included) would be better off not putting too much pressure on US Government; and its citizens externally. This fight will be won, internally ;via The Courts,Legislative Branch, etc. The last thing the WTO wants to do is make it a US Vs the World fight. One thing Americans seem to do is ban together in light of a National Tragedy or a challenge. By trying to Bully Americans in to paying external nations a sum, in light; which most Americans don’t feel they have a right too. Will cause animosity and distainment toward those nations. Especially those who many Americans feel are already getting more then their share of a fair shake (China,India, some ways Japan).
Let us handle it here internaly and things should be alright. In a lighter note: American Idol 911 says that we should have a court date for the injunction against the UIGEA sometime this or early next week. Maybe they will release a public copy of the compliant so we can see what sort of teeth it has.
Americans no longer ban together, we have become a complacent politically correct nation of bleeding hearts with no backbone. The people are concerned about gas prices personal gains. The band together mentality has been completely destroyed by the politics of this country over the last 20 years.
Sad to say the least but the US has become what it always fought against in the 40’s
