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Thanks Kevin11.
Though under the prevailing winds, I think everyone is doing a great job here including everyone taking up this stand, where ever that may be.
Given the industries webmaster history pertaining to the scumware battle and its comradery to march to the beat of one drum on that issue, 888 may have prematurely under estimated this, this our combined fight for just causes.
Kevin11 wrote:Wager2winUK – Very good post!Greek – Thanks for the work you are doing. I am also doing some work to help eradicate this problem, but approaching it from a different perspective. Potential results are promising…
Bottom Line – 888, pharmacy programs or any other high revenue markets that work with “scum bag” scraping/spamming affiliates” need to seriously consider the consequences of doing so.
I do have some misleading information on the “pharmacy” mainly for the viagra brand. Apparently we must post facts, which shouldn’t to much of a problem.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. What ever is entered onto the www. will always remain cannot not delete. greek39
Wager2winUK wrote:A direct post to 888.Fundamentally the majority of sites (this includes 888) derive commercial interests from this industry. Granted it’s the nature of the beast to be competitive. However, in regard to the 888 issues, it seems pretty obvious to me that the level of conduct which I’d reserve and expect, especially that a tuned to a large corporate company , is at best lacking at 888. At worst it’s a case of we can do what we want attitude.
My idealistic views are what challenges, drives and in essence motivates me to not only evaluate my own course, but, also that which I’m committed to with my passion for this our industry. In saying that I honestly believe it is our (webmasters) industry too.
Speaking as a webmaster, our resources are constructed from our own words, our own ideas. The majority of us invest countless hours, in tuning, arranging, changing our sites to be the best they can be.
Is it any wonder that when webmasters discover a rogue webmaster has collected (scraped) these works and are using their copyrighted material to promote a company ( in the case 888) that should uphold a level of integrity far above allowing this practice to continue, is it any wonder the webmasters are becoming enraged.
Breaking it down to simple terms, It’s a kin to fencing (accepting stolen goods) acquiring financial gain from property that does not belong to you or the person your purchasing the goods from. Which in terms of rogue webmasters they are generating players by using another webmasters property.
Allowing rogue webmasters to continue this practice regardless of 888’s financial gains, is not ethical, just, or right!
Excellent post.
We believe that . . . as an industry leader we have to set an example and operate according to ethical principles which are second to none.[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:PUH-LEASE!!!
If that is true, then why are so many ethically-challenged webmasters promoting 888 via adware, scraping, and blog spamming?
Quote:One of 888’s important marketing channels is our Affiliate Program, which is one of the largest in the global gaming industry. We are very proud of this achievement in the highly competitive affiliate environment and are committed to the highest ethical standards in all its activities.Again with the “ethical standards.” Laughable.
We are very proud of this achievement
888 should be ashamed… not proud.
Quote:No official process of any kind was conducted by ANY authorized party to verify these allegations.Stupid statement of the year. Undeniable, damning facts were presented in various public forums. It doesn’t take a genius (or an “authorized party”) to interpret obvious facts.
Quote:Additionally most of the affiliates who have been singled out for practicing “Immoral” marketing techniques on 888.com’s behalf are providing marketing services to several other large and small online gaming companies. Strangely enough only 888.com was continually accused of working with these affiliates.Strangely enough, this statement is false. Other affiliate programs are being talked to about this, and many of them are taking action when issues are brought to their attention. 888 is the largest offender, though, so it is only logical for 888 to receive the most attention.
Don’t you worry about the “other” programs, 888… focus on your own problems. Other programs are absolutely being looked at, and if these programs decide to adopt 888’s “do nothing” attitude, they too will become rogued and blacklisted.
Quote:It seems resolution is not what the accusations are aimed at achieving but rather damaging 888.com’s hard earned reputation hiding behind anonymous identities as the Web permits.I would love to see a resolution. We have been trying to achieve a resolution for a long, long time. But when you sit there and do absolutely nothing for over a year, it becomes quite clear that 888 is not interested in resolving the issues — it is not the other way around as you would like to have everyone believe.
Quote:Our Affiliate Program has contractual terms that clearly specify our stance against any illegal marketing activity, including “blog spamming” and “site scraping”. All of 888’s affiliates are required to sign and agree to adhere to these contractual terms.If this is true, then why is the internet littered with 888 scraper pages and blog spam? 888 the company was caught blog spamming. How can you enforce anti-blog spamming T&Cs when the parent company engages in this very activity? :banger:
Quote:In a further attempt to clarify our policies, we have also added a notice in our Affiliate Program’s homepage outlining our Ethical Marketing Practices Policy with a link to report any misbehavior of our affiliates.Has anyone tried this yet? Does it work?
Quote:Each and every time we receive a credible allegation that a member of our Affiliate Program has engaged in any sort of illegal or illicit activity we will investigate it thoroughly. If the evidence that is gathered proves wrongdoing there will be decisive action taken, including blocking their affiliate account and suspending all payments, towards the affiliate found in breach of this policySo this is a new thing, I take it? Because for the past year, when complaints were filed, very rarely did anything actually get accomplished. 888 would blame Tradal or some other “marketing partner.” Or 888 would ask for a list of offending URLs (perhaps so that 888 could ask the scraper to remove *only* those pages). Or 888 would take weeks and weeks to respond to an accusation.
Sorry, but I don’t believe you when you say that “there will be decisive action taken, including blocking their affiliate account and suspending all payments, towards the affiliate found in breach of this policy.” Based on my observations, this doesn’t actually happen. Now if this is a “new” policy, and you plan to do this beginning today, then that is great. But I would also wonder why it took such a long time to get this policy in place.
Quote:However, that being said, we will not tolerate baseless accusations by anonymous moderators or members and will take legal action against those who libel 888.It isn’t “libel” if it’s true. Remember that.
I endorse all reponses thus far. Good posts everybody!! I am still waiting for a some sort of response from 888.com. We are not hiding from this issue, you have made a public statement. Tell us why 888.com should not be rogued by honest webmasters.
We all want solutions not problems. greek39
I am actually amazed by the arogance of 888. Either they are in denial about what they are guilty of OR they are playing a game OR they are not about to kneel to the likes of affiliates.
Yeeeezzzzzzz What is it with 888! Why do you want to enter a war you will not win! Do you actually want to take this further legally and tarnish your reputation and the industries reputation? This is the last thing the industry need. Kick these thieves out of your affiliate program! That is all we ask! You know what we want from you and you know you have made your money of these blackhats, we just say enough stealing of our content and using dishonest techniques! I am going out for drink :shots: see yah!
I like that little threat in the end… Shut up or we’ll sue…
Well I ain’t gonna shut up and I dare 888 to sue me!
looks like 888 is feeling the heat… pages dropping out of google… pissed off webmasters calling them out for what they are doing… their stock dropping like a rock…
Couldent have happened to nicer bunch.
Maybe giving free air tickets and rides in the 888 stretch hummer to a dirty little spammer dosent really payoff after all.
Chatmaster wrote:Kick these thieves out of your affiliate program! That is all we ask!I’ve lost track of all the facts. Still not sure who is behind all this to be honest but what is clear to me is that the conversation with Professor clearly indicated that they can’t afford to kick whoever it is causing the problem out. They are a public company and if indeed this revenue stream makes up a significant proportion of their profits, then they find themselves caught between a rock and a hard place. But a place of their own making.
Threatening legal action in my eyes further compounds the negative PR issue that they seem keen to address.
Quote:…what is clear to me is that the conversation with Professor clearly indicated that they can’t afford to kick whoever it is causing the problem out.If this is in fact the case, then 888 should be shut down for being stupid… As I do believe that they have cut their own throats…
Just a passing thought…. I wonder how it feels to watch your ½ a Billion dollar company bite the big one cuz you wanted to take a few shortcuts…
If I were 888 management I would be getting ready for a few lawsuits…. from the 888 stockholders.
I see their threat as a big insult. It’s like they consider us a bunch of idiots that will just drop our guns (solid proof) and roll over and die. :beatup:
They are obviously starting to feel the pinch. We should all anticipate that their other head will soon get involved in an attempt to save face and turn this downfall around.
We must not crack under their idiotic pressure, we have plenty of proof, hell maybe we should bond together and file our own suit. If you stab your neighbor and then 6 years later as a deadman walking show some remorse, it does not change the facts.
Interesting tidbit (Not legal advice).
If you were to own a SINGLE SHARE of 888 Holdings Ltd. it may well be very hard or even impossible in some countries for 888 to sue you for anything…
Dave Sawyer found splogged backlinks on a site registered to Cassava
http://www.coperam.com/type/archives/000009.html has this comment posted =
“This is the Online Casino xhttp://www.casinoonnet-online.com Online Casino and none other. When you truely want to play Online Casino look no further. Posted by: Online Casino on January 26, 2005 01:37 AM”
My guess is Cassava want to say out loud a competitor or unhappy ex/staff made the link to their site to make them look bad.
Fascinating thread, I can’t wait to see how this plays out. Great job Greek, Dom and Professor for leading the fight on this.
Well, I am curious how our conversation on Monday will go.
Since I believe in the sanctity of private communication, I am not publishing any emails.
But the tone of these older, lost mails was such that I think we may be able to get on common ground with 888. If these mails would not have gotten lost, I think we would not have the 888 letter published above.
We’ll see.
The manner in which you just posted makes it sound as if you are going to uncover a beautiful fragrant rose under the pile of crap and that since its so pretty all the crap won’t matter.
Was this pile of crap not accumulating long before these long lost email conversations were sent? Were webmasters not already on this case long before that point in time trying to get them to do the right thing?
Sorry, somehing is giving me a very itchy feeling.
