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It is my understanding Tradal.net an Empire Online Company markets and promotes 888.com. By your own admission Shelly and I quote “he isn’t even directing to our brands – therefore I DO NOT see 888 accountable for whoever this person is actions.”
Yet when you visit Tradal’s site, tradal.net your brand is clearly visible on his main page. Perhaps he decided to leave it up there, don’t matter much.
From my findings Empire or Tradel does in fact promote your brand I quote from http://investors.ep.com/company_information.htm. “The Company also has arrangements to market Casino-On-Net (part of 888.com, one of the most established online casino websites).
On the left margin of this site I find 888Casino.com and the site registant is EMPIRE ONLINE Ltd.
So what is the connection here is Tradal an investor? or he supports your brand. Which is it? Again by tour own words Tradal “isn’t even directing to our brands – therefore I DO NOT see 888 accountable for whoever this person is actions.” If this is the case how does Tradal register 888Casino.com under his own company? If Tradel is an investor in 888.com then you have real serious problems.
Last year alone 888.com had spent 10% of their marketing budget on domains.
It seems clear to me Empire Online Ltd is indeed connected to 888.com in one way or another. There is proof of Tradal or his affiliates scraping sites which 888.com refuses to deal with. The connection between Tradal and 888.com is quite clear. Greek39^*thgwatt
greek39 wrote:Last year alone 888.com had spent 10% of their marketing budget on domains.That sounds like 888 is going to try to make a go without paying affiliates anyway, just using their work via scrapers and not paying for it anymore.
No other reasons for all those domains.
To answer everything that went on here during the weekend:
Dominique:
I did not say that scrapping is fair. I think it is wrong, and as I have said many times before – any webmaster that is affiliated with us is either blocked or is denied commission until he cleans up his sites. I do not understand what you mean by “you will use their work anyway without permission to promote yourself?”As for the link you posted I will look into it, and keep you posted on the actions taken with this affiliate.
Greek:
As for our brands – out main brands are Casino-on-Net and Pacific Poker, but as you yourself said, we have many more casinos and URLs.As for Tradal – as I said before, and as you yourself noted, they are our super-affiliates. we do work with them. Tradal’s sub affiliate which you complained about is the one who is not promoting our brands, therefore I cannot approach Tradal with it, as I do not even know who the affiliate is. All I can do is turn their attention to this post and request them to deal with their affiliate.
shelly
888.com wrote:Dominique:
I did not say that scrapping is fair. I think it is wrong, and as I have said many times before – any webmaster that is affiliated with us is either blocked or is denied commission until he cleans up his sites. I do not understand what you mean by “you will use their work anyway without permission to promote yourself?”As for the link you posted I will look into it, and keep you posted on the actions taken with this affiliate.
shelly
Hi Shelly,
I am sure you know that this is not personal, I think you are a good manager and do everthing in your power to do this right.
I also think that you are not being told about everything that comes into play here. This goes a lot deeper (or should I say higher up) than you know, and it is not all within your realm of knowledge or influence as it does not all concern actual affiliates.
I do appreciate having you here and being able to communicate.
you will use their work anyway without permission to promote yourself
The “you” in here is not you personally of course, but 888.
You remarked that 888 would take care of these things for affiliates who actually promoted them.
The above was in response to that – if affiliates are not actively promoting 888, 888 will support using their work anyway without permission to promote itself -888.
Because that is what scrapers do – they take the fruit of our labor and use it to promote other properties – without permission by the owner of the work.
This is actually illegal, my content is all copyrighted.
Whether affiliates promote 888 or not, 888 has no right to pay people to steal from us.
Scrapers are thieves. They can and should be prosecuted.
This situation is getting closer and closer to a class action suit.
Please also note this thread:
http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/showthread.php?p=66646#post66646
I personally would like to see Dominique compensated from the affiliate who scraped and stolen his work. Amere shut down of the affiliate account is just one step, the second is all earnnings forwared to Dominique. greek39
888.com wrote:any webmaster that is affiliated with us is either blocked or is denied commission until he cleans up his sites.That’s easy enough, but when you consider the fact that the bulk of the unethical acts are being committed internally or contracted out of office that response is meaningless.
casinoonnet-online.com
Guy Margolin
Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd.
Europort 601-701
Gibraltar
Gibraltar
1111
GI
Phone: +350.49800
Fax: +350.50309http://www.google.com/search?q=link:http://www.casinoonnet-online.com&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N
Shelly on your promise to take appropriate actions, I would like the above site shut down as they are clearly practicing blog and forum spamming. But wait, since they arent actually an affiliate there is nothing wrong with it? :banger:
Yeah.. There is nothing being done. I don’t care about all the talk. Whoever is getting scraped should get together to file a class action suit against 888. This is just getting out of hand.
Anyone know people in the press? I think this story should be told. I think the public should know about copyright violations by a publicly held company, their associates, and affiliates while they look the other way.
utterly ridiculous.
I am glad someone picked up on Guy Margolin here is the rest of his sites, just a dent.
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888.com do we have enough evidence yet? or are we to keep posting. I will move forward with the 888.com, tradal and cpays connection if need be, or can we come to some sort of conclusion.
Greek^*outcheck/sen blimo
I can understand why some webmasters are reluctant to have me to a scan for scrapes.
I have put my head on the chopping block on several occassions. If you are a webmaster and would like me to scan for 888.com scrapes PM me. I will forward the info onto you in confidence and let you decide whether or not you would like to post it.Whatever I find will be private and confidential. Take the 888.com scrape challenge!! greek39^*outcheck/
If 888, or one or more of their affiliates, is using an automated process to steal content from other sites then I am glad somebody is taking the time to bust their balls.
But I am not clear on what the issue is with all the domain names. I don’t care if they registered 8-eight-ate.net. If I was running 888 I would do the same thing. I clicked on a couple of the links from a few posts ago and all I got was a standard landing page for 888. There didn’t seem to be any exogenous content.
I am not here to defend 888. I was just moved to comment because I think this thread is beginning to lose focus and feels more like a witch hunt. Either that, or I am just too retarded to understand all the innuendo.
Greek I wish get some straight facts here. It might be that I missunderstand the intention of this thread. But As I understood from the first posts you found evidence that 888.com was directly responsible for site scraping. However, all I saw was evidence that their affiliates are guilty of sitescraping. Am I on the wrong track here, or can you please give me accurate and exact evidence that they are directly responsible for site scraping in a short post, one example is enough!
Guys I just got off the phone with Shelly and Brian from 888. They are REALLY trying their best to assist us in finding a solution to this situation. The issue is that affiliates of Tradal are the ones practicing scraping and they are NOT employees of 888 or even Tradal.
The only smoking guns are ones which have been readily admitted all along. Yes, there are affiliates using scraping. 888 is aware of this and does NOT support that practice. They have stated over and over that they will and do SUSPEND any affiliate account that does Scraping or content theft.
They have made a firm committment that whenever we supply an affiliate ID thats associated with this type of behavior they will verify that the affiliate is doing this and then suspend that affiliate and retain their commissions.
This certainly seems reasonable and proactive to me.
Furthermore they DO own thousands of gambling related domains. This is not uncommon. I personally own thousands of domains too, as do many of you. There is nothing sinister about this.
Establishing that there are ties between Tradal and 888 is also no great discovery. Everyone knows that Tradal has been a super affiliate of the Casino On Net brand since they opened the doors. Tradal also generates more revenue than all their other affiliates combined by a very wide margin, so its nieve to think that 888 is about to abandon that business relationship.
Guys I think it’s best to work WITH 888 to get rid of these scrapers. Alienating the program and creating a hostile enviroment where they cant even get in a word in edgewise with us is NOT going to help solve anything. You are just going to create a wall that makes cooperation difficult if not impossible.
I know everyone loves to have a cause to rally around. And Scraping is a VERY serious issue that HAS to be resolved. I just think the best way to beat this thing is by removing the profit to the scrapers. By working WITH the programs we can do this. If you just shut the casino(s) off from the mainstream affiliate community the only people they will have left to work with will be the scrapers and black hatters and the problem will only get worse.
EVERY problem we have ever solved at CAP has come through cooperation. This is too serious a threat to abandon an approach with proven results.
Shelly is one of the good “guys” lets work with her to get over this hurdle.They are going to get back to us in 24 to 48 hours with a detailed action list of what’s being done to help us stamp out scraping. Lets hold off with the rotten egg and tomato throwing for awhile please until we see what they have to offer.
perhaps a refresher course on the Google’s webmasters guidelines would be useful here are some points of interest:
Quality Guidelines – Basic principles:
Make pages for users, not for search engines. Don’t deceive your users or present different content to search engines than you display to users, which is commonly referred to as “cloaking.”
Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you’d feel comfortable explaining what you’ve done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, “Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn’t exist?”
Don’t participate in link schemes designed to increase your site’s ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or “bad neighborhoods” on the web, as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links.
Don’t use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our Terms of Service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google.
Quality Guidelines – Specific recommendations:Avoid hidden text or hidden links.
Don’t employ cloaking or sneaky redirects.
Don’t load pages with irrelevant words.
Don’t create pages that install viruses, trojans, or other badware.
Don’t create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.
Avoid “doorway” pages created just for search engines, or other “cookie cutter” approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content.
These quality guidelines cover the most common forms of deceptive or manipulative behavior, but Google may respond negatively to other misleading practices not listed here (e.g. tricking users by registering misspellings of well-known websites). It’s not safe to assume that just because a specific deceptive technique isn’t included on this page, Google approves of it. Webmasters who spend their energies upholding the spirit of the basic principles listed above will provide a much better user experience and subsequently enjoy better ranking than those who spend their time looking for loopholes they can exploitBased on this information most of the domains listed above are intented to decieve, misrepresent, and redirect to 888.com. This seems quite clear to me some are not your typical 888.com landing page.
Very much a witch hunt there has not been one scraper shut down on this thread. We have not lost our focus and I can certainly turn up the heat if need be. greek39
