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I will preface this post by stating that not every webmaster will agree with this, and that not every affiliate program is guilty. And, for my friends who are affiliate managers, I fully realize that many times your hands are tied in these issues by the higher-ups. That does not change the facts of the situation, though.
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Dear webmaster friends (and affiliate programs lurking),
It is unfortunate that we live in a time when corrupt governments can hurt our families… take food from our childrens mouths so that they can build themselves 8,000 square foot homes… but that’s the truth of the matter.
It is also unfortunate that we work in an industry where are “partners” will only treat us fairly if there is a threat to their bottom lines… shave players and profits from our hard work… and refuse to pay us in a timely manner… but here we are.
Right now, we are faced with a cash flow crisis. We all know that programs are still making money because — if not — there would be no late commissions to be complaining about. So why can some programs pay quickly and reliably while others seemed mired by confusion on how to conduct a wire transfer? Is it ignorance or something else? Personally, I no longer care which it is.
It needs to be stopped, and since we all know that these programs will not stop unless there is a compelling interest to do so, I say it’s time we give them a compelling reason.
The APCW is starting a new project, called Affiliate Union. It will be for all affiliates in all industries, but for now we’re going to focus on gaming. And the sole purpose of the Affiliate Union will be preventing affiliates from being exploited, walked on, ripped off, or cheated.
To start with, I call all affiliates here to get ready for our first action: Email me all the programs that owe you commissions and are about a month late. We will collect a list of all those affiliate programs and give them 10 days to pay… Then we move on…
At that point, I believe we need to start aggressive campaigns in forums, blogs, chat rooms, video web casts, and web pages with tons of content designed at exposing these sites as having cash flow issues and therefore unsafe for players to play at.
It’s really simple: If they can’t PAY, then it’s not safe to PLAY.
This is a great idea. I hope the AMs are reading this.
It’s a great idea.
:hattip:Fortunately for me I have NO delinquent programs to report.
A mixture of being based in New Zealand – and carefully selecting only the most solvent companies (beneficial for both players and affiliates) means that all partners are up-to-date.
:happydancThis is an awesome idea, we are all for it, I would like to also see an affiliate program auditor that would have the power to audit affiliate commissions, obviously the affiliate programs would need to agree to this, but since they are already being audited at the player level why can’t they be audited for the affiliate commissions? This would work very well especially for second tier programs like ourselves, and we would agree to such audits.
I’m all in. I think this is a great idea! One I had thought about for a while since any ‘unionizing’ would also aid AfilliateGuardDog.com in applying pressure to programs with Predatory conditions.
Good work J. Todd!! (as usual)
I have thought about a Union for years. It would certainly empower us.
There is good reason though for why I have never followed through. Unions can become very restrictive, you have to tow the line. A union can seriously infringe on your freedom, and it can make life changing decisions for you even if you don’t agree.
I have always been a maverick, I have my own opinions and make my own decisions. I don’t think I want to give up my freedom in exchange for more power. I have seen too much of that in US politics lately.
J Todd I am totally surprised by this sudden announcement and would have appreciated a heads up and a chance to disucss this with you first.
While I understand your frustration with late payments, CAP has always taken the approach of working WITH the Affiliate Programs and recognizing what they they are; our PARTNERS. We dont take the stance that it’s an US against THEM proposition. I have always believed if you approach our business with that attitude you will be very unhappy with the results and your earnings.
Right now we ARE facing difficult times. These times were imposed upon us by the indefensible actions of the US Government, not the affiliate programs whom we have all partnered with for years. Like us the programs are REALLY having a rough go of it due to the current market realities. Many have lost hundreds of millions of dollars in stock values and collectively thousands of people have lost their jobs. That’s REALITY. It’s not a plot or a scam all engineered so that they wouldn’t have to pay affiliates.
The pull out of Neteller from the US market left our industry with no reliable payment mechanism for players and this has caused severe cash flow issues for the casinos and programs. It has impacted their ability to pay us in a timely fashion. Would it have been prudent to have had other methods already lined up? Yes, but there wasnt. I dont attribute this to a desire to cause havoc among players or affiliates. Perhaps it was laziness or just being short sighted and reactive rather then proactive. But again I don’t think this was/is anything the programs wanted.
There ARE new payment mechanism which are coming online. EcoCard was just the first workable one to come along. Others WILL be following. That will ease all these problems and return cash flow to more acceptable levels. I am sure that will also smooth out the payment delays.
I have a wife and children to feed too, 80% of my income is derived as a gaming affiliate, so believe me the delays are excruciating for me too. But still I dont lay ALL of this on the programs which have supported my family for years. I blame the Government and am active in the Democratic party trying to effect a change. I think that is an appropriate response.
Unions have always been a way for EMPLOYEES to address grievances with EMPLOYERS. They have never been a means to foster closer relationships between PARTNERS. As I said, CAP has always taken the position that affiliates are private business owners who PARTNER with affiliate programs and that by working closely TOGETHER we can all make more money.
I firmly believe that if you attempt to warp the relationship away from mutual cooperation and basing it instead on fear (“We will slam you or boycot you if you dont do exactly as we say”) will be very detrimental to all parties.
I do not believe a hostile relationship will acheive the ultimate goals you want to reach and urge you to take a positive appproach in this new venture. Something founded on negativity is doomed to failure.
Give me a call when you are available to discuss.
REMEMBER! I am not talking about ALL affiliate programs! I have many great partners that email me, call me, pay me… but then there are others who are hurting me and other affiliates.
So let me clear things up:
1) Affiliate Union is a name… it would not be a true union. I have no intention of bringing in teamsters, so no one start getting visions of Jummy Hoffa being driven out into the New Jersey winderness (not that I know where his body would hypotheically be! LOL!)
2) Sorry for no “heads-up”, Lou… but I really didn’t think you would object to this sort of thing considering points 3, 4, and 5 below.
3) When these delinquent programs do not pay, do not communicate, but still show us earning commissions, we know something is terribly wrong.
4) If these delinquent programs have cash and cannot/will not pay us, it absolutely is not safe for players to play at those sites.
5) If these delinquent programs really are our partners, it’s way past the time for them to ACT like partners.
To quote your address to the programs from February 5th:
Guys please dont rest on your laurels. Your US affiliate partners have worked dilligently for years and earned your companies billions of dollars. We DESERVE your best effort now to ensure we are paid in a timely manner the commissions we EARNED… The rest of the world is watching. If you dont pay us what makes affiliates in other markets believe you wont do the same to them at some point in the future?… DO THE RIGHT THING!
My friend, it’s been almost six weeks since you made this post. Not much has changed. What else is diplomatically available for affiliates at this point?
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Dom, I am more than a bit surprised by your belief. Remember 888.com? NOTHING happened until we got motivated, got together, and took action! NOTHING…
We got lip service and NOTHING from them for how long? It was not until webmasters got together and took action (which some may consider negative) that they got off their asses and did the right thing.
If we had not done so, I guarantee you 888 would still be “business as usual”.
And here we are again… waiting for these delinquent programs to do the right thing…
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We’ve always needed a united voice in this industry. If affiliate programs were really interested in our “partnerships” then they would have done something — ANYTHING — before we ever got into this position.
The law passed…. they did nothing…
The law was signed… they did nothing…
NETeller goes down… and nothing…
No payments for months… anyone? Nothing….
I may not be the sharpest tac in the box, but I do see a pattern here. And I will tell you that I do not believe anything will change with these delinquent programs unless something forces them to change.
Nothing nothing nothing nothing… and here we sit.
OK, so Lou and I have spoken and resolved things, most of which was the differences between our two perpective views of the same situation.
Let me state, for the record… AGAIN, that these posts in no way addressed every affiliate program… and I’ll add that they in no way reflect the opinions of CAP.
Many, many affiliate programs are making exreaordinary efforts to get us paid… and we appreciate it. Truly, truly we do. There are still some who — for whatever reasons — have not paid, and are now months behind in payments.
To the select affiliate programs who are not paying — and you know who you are — I will only say this: I have just had a vehicle repossesed… I have no home phone service… I have no home television service… My kids may be withdrawn from school and took a stale piece of pizza with crackers for lunch today… My electricity is scheduled to be terminated soon… And my family is eating Mac & Cheese to survive… so ask yourself what sort of attitude you would have at this point… but don’t worry about us.
Just take these posts for what they are… frustration… and do whatever you want.
simultaneous posting.
Well I know one thing, if there are no consequences to the slow pays, then certain affiliate programs will run all over us affiliates. I have already dropped the programs that conveniently can’t find a way to square me away, but that is the only play I have. Now I am at their mercy and I don’t like this one bit. I think now more than ever affiliates need to pull their clout as one voice if we want to get anything done about this. I am not being fair to myself or my business if I just let things continue as they were. I just want what is rightfully mine. We’ve all had to adapt to this horseshit bill. Other programs are getting the job done and keeping affiliates paid up, and they should be recognized for this. The others who are dragging their feet and holding our money should also be recognized and have consequences for not making affiliate payments priority.
I also agree that players should be notified in a big way about the programs that can’t even pay the people that bring that business in the door. This is a pretty good indication that players will eventually get screwed as well and they deserve the right to know. I am also willing to bet if 200 affiliates went on a mass campaign to let players know certain programs are having cash flow issues, we would probably have a check at our front door in no time.
We need power in numbers and I’m with you JT. Or maybe we are wrong, and if we send another unanswered email with the heading title “Please Pay Me With Sugar On Top”, they may finally pay us. Pay us our damn money fools. Are we supposed to be so niave to think it takes 3 months to set up a damn ecocard account.
Hi all,
well most already know how I feel. You dont’ get paid within 2 months. take them down. PERIOD!
Excuses are great but sadly not accepted by my utility company.. the grocery store ….etc.
I have said this so many times I’m feeling like a recording.
those that continue to list programs which don’t pay, cheat, shave etc .. ENABLE them to continue to do so …. and in fact help fund their underhanded activities.
Its a simple matter depsite what some may say. I cannot agree more with Int.
if they’re not able to pay us ….. it is our DUTY to not list them because they are a risk to not paying players.
If they are able to pay players ….there’s no reason they can’t pay us.
I’m sorry if I offend anyone. but its black and white to me for the basis listed above.
Yes there are obstacles……. all kinds of available excuses. but it doesn’t get around the fact that it is our duty to protect the players .. and as already mentioned … if they can pay players .. they can pay us. and if they can’t … vice-versa.
Most cases its a simple matter of laziness. How can anyone defend the fact that one program is able to pay .. and the other can’t?
Fascinating discussion. Very interesting to see the responses.
I’d agree somewhat with Professor that making it a negative thing and demanding might damage the relationship – but i’d also point out that while affiliates are not being paid then the “relationship” is pretty much one way.
I’d also agree with Dominique that I’d not join a Union, almost out of personal principals as I’ve never been a union member. Unions tend to want to charge fees – and end up with spokespeople that think that they can “speak for their members” … when of course they have no such unanimous mandate.
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So what I’d suggest is a loose affiliate collective.
We create a website or forum (perhaps using CAP or GPWA or APCW or something new) and we list outstanding debts.
Program XXXXXX (real name) owes Affiliate AFF001 (serial number) $10,000 and it has been outstanding since DEC 06.
We make sure that affiliates are aware that there is a simply page where they can see which programs are owning amounts to legitimate affilaites.
The collective can release a list of programs that are in DEBT to affilaites.
Imagine a report that says something like we have recorded that :
– affiliate program XXXXX owes $300,000 to 27 seperate affiliates !!!
:stirpot:Wow!! That would cetainly help me to decide who I chose to work with !!
:shooter:Now of course it’s up to each member to choose which programs that they want to do business with … but I think that a clear and concise listing a report like this would be doing the affilaite community a great service.
As far as I can see – it’s not antagonistic – but it’s reporting simple business facts – and programs do need to get used to the idea that they cannot treat affilaites like easy credit and only pay them when they feel like it.
These programs need to get a bloody business loan and pay their debts !!
Or else the Collective will be reporting on themWe could call it …
Bringing Back Organised Reliable Gaming Collective.
or
The BBORG Collective ….
“You will pay your affiliates” ….
“Resistance is Futile” ….(OK you can tell that I’m a closet Trekkie)
:bigsmile:
