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Ok add the fine Folks at Casino Profit Share and Focal Click to the list of attendees and supporters.:thumbsup:
We might have to get a bigger conference room soon! :woo-hoo:
And the groveling continues….
Poor Dominique is still being besieged by the organizers of affcon (iCafma) to help save their show. Hardly a day goes by without another frantic email. After reviewing the affcon website I guess I see why. They are virtually out of speakers and are down to one sponsor.
A real knee slapper is the predatory advertising panel which only lists one participant. I can only imagine what a lively debate that will be :laugh:
Remember to join CAP and GPWA in Montreal on June 17th at the Intercontinental hotel. We have an exciting day of networking with all the top Casino Affiliate Programs planned. Admission is free and there will be refreshements, lunch and cocktails provided by our supporting casinos.
:thumbsup: :letsparty :la-de-da:
Louis,
I really don’t have time to play this game with you whereby you are churning up mud and make misleading statements to your readers here, but I feel the need to help you with your understanding of the situation, yet again.
Please let this soak in once and for all …. iCAfma.org is NOT the organizer of this event. It belongs to the River City Group.
RCG is doing just nicely. The attendee list is growing a pace and already way more than your group of affiliates. There is no trouble with the selection of speakers either. The audience will be well catered for.
Furthermore, a few emails to the organizer last week, and one this morning, asking when I can give her a call, does not exactly constitute a “siege”. I was merely trying to reach out to her and suggest a few ways your group can be better catered for, within the overall GIGSE event. Sadly, she was unable to take my call.
Why was I trying to reach Dominque? (Certainly not to grovel or “to help save the RCG show” as you state. How would you know? Are you privy to the RCG planning information?)
The reason I was reaching out to your group is to try and salvage some of the mess you have created. Not for the sake of RCG, iCAfma.org or anything else, EXCEPT for the good face of affiliate marketing in general. Due to this irrational and unprofessional behavior of straddling an existing casino industry event, you certainly have not made any friends at River City Group. In fact, I would not be at all surprised if Sue Schneider does not ever touch affiliate marketing with a barge pole again. I can’t say I blame her at all.
Don’t you see what a great opportunity has been lost here? To get the casino revenue share business model into the limelight at GIGSE and give it the recognition it deserves. I’m surprised that a man with your intelligence did not sit and think this through. You have caused a blow to the affiliate marketing industry that will take a while to repair.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m happy for you that your gathering is going to be a hearty one. However, I fear that with this sort of clique behavior and “we are so important” attitude, all your efforts have achieved is perhaps to sooth your own egos.
All the best with your event. Please have the good manners to leave Sue Schneider in peace, as she strives to serve the casino affiliate marketing industry, by opening the door for it at GIGSE.
Thanks for your understanding.
Herby
No Herby I am sure the RCG show is doing nicely. It’s affcon thats fallen by the wayside. On the affcon site the iCafma logo is clearly displayed top of page and leads visitors to believe your group was the organizer of the affcon 1 day event. Is this not true?
I certainly hope Sue Schneider has a wildly succesful show this year and in the future. I also hope she does not give up on affiliate marketing but instead chooses to work with an industry organization like GPWA in the future. I am at a total loss why she didn’t approach GPWA and ask for their participation.
GPWA represents affiliates and webmasters who actually work within our industry not JUST Affiliate Managers and Media Sellers.
I am sorry for the confusion and wish you the best of luck with your Booze Cruises. Leave the Casino Affiliate Market to the people who actually do this day in and day out and you’ll have my gratitude and support.
Oh and by the way, I am certain that the casinos are well aware of the contributions affiliates make to their growth and prosperity we really don’t need a show to highlight our value to anyone. This was a necessary evil because you chose to spoil an affiliate targeted event by inviting scumware merchants.
> It’s affcon thats fallen by the wayside
It is the AffCon portion I am referring to. That attendance is growing rather nicely. Hardly a case of it “falling by the wayside”. Sue has not been deterred one bit by your absence. Perhaps it is better that way. The folks that will be there may very well appreciate a more professional environment.
> I certainly hope Sue Schneider has a wildly succesful show this year and in the future.
My point exactly. Your actions and senseless remarks as in this thread are exactly contrary to your good wishes above. You are not hurting me and/or iCAfma.org one bit. I take the time to post here to repair the damage you are causing to the industry in general, not to mention distancing RCG.
>I also hope she does not give up on affiliate marketing but instead chooses to work with an industry organization like GPWA in the future. I am at a total loss why she didn’t approach GPWA and ask for their participation.
Perhaps your answer lies in the unprofessional manner in which you pulled of this “competing” event stunt?
> GPWA represents affiliates and webmasters who actually work within our industry not JUST Affiliate Managers and Media Sellers.
No doubt about that at all. There are some bright minds in the GPWA.
Your remark also goes to show that you don’t know what iCAfma.org is trying to achieve. Build bridges to the retail affiliate marketing sector. There is no reason why GPWA and iCAfma.org cannot work together to advance the industry in unison, each with their own strengths.
> you chose to spoil an affiliate targeted event by inviting scumware merchants.
Again I need to help you understand the facts. Please discard that crystal ball that is giving you false readings about what was going on behind the scenes to get Gator there. I PERFECT opportunity to put them in plain public view and then rip them apart. Following the Atlantis meeting, you being there in the audience, when I personally ripped WhenU apart publicly, should have been more than enough to assure you that I will NEVER give any credence to predators, only shame.
I’m not asking you to subscribe to my particular strategy for defeating the predators. All I’m asking is for you to give Sue and RCG the courtesy of planning their event in peace.
Go ahead and enjoy your event. Please be professional enough to refrain from ridiculing Sue’s affiliate marketing day. She has not said one single negative thing about your ill-timed gathering. That is the sort of professionalism it takes to be where RCG is today. Not create a picket line because you are personally unhappy.
I would be surprised if she even remembers the acronym GPWA after this episode. So much the pity, GPWA has become a very worthwhile organization. It’s a shame you cannot put that cohesiveness to better use.
Cheers,
Herby
Neither you nor I for time for this sniping so lets call it a day.
Since you’ve decided to take this into personal attacks I will respond, but I really thought you were a better debater then to resort to these types of unprofessional jabs. Ok lets see here:
It is the AffCon portion I am referring to. That attendance is growing rather nicely.
Ok I’ll concede this point. My crystal ball does not show me this growing list. I was relying on the affcon webpage which showed a shrinking number of speakers and sponsors. Couple that with the growing number of attendees who have told Dominique they are joining us and I made the assumption that affcon’s attendence was off. If I am wrong I apologize for this misrepresentation of the swelling crowds clamoring to get a ticket to affcon.
Sue has not been deterred one bit by your absence. Perhaps it is better that way.
Ok. I’ll concede this too. Perhaps this event was never geared toward working affiliates and I would be out of place. I was neither invited nor had I been would I attend an event that features scumware merchants. In Atlantis the scumware discussions took place between affiliates and affiliate managers. This was the proper set up and I was happy to participate. I only wish you had the good sense to do the same at affcon and all this unpleasantry could have been avoided.
Perhaps your answer lies in the unprofessional manner in which you pulled of this “competing” event stunt?
Nope. Not true. She planned the event with iCafma from day 1 and never approached GPWA. The “competing” event was announced by me weeks later after you stubbornly refused to remove Gator from the event.
There is no reason why GPWA and iCAfma.org cannot work together to advance the industry in unison, each with their own strengths.
There wasnt and isnt if you will reject Gator and scumware merchants and re-join affiliates in this crucial battle.
I really believed you were with us, I dont know why you were compromised. Was Gator your idea (iCafma) or was this decision made by RCG? Perhaps there is a huge misunderstanding that could be ironed out and both organizations work more closely in the future?
All I’m asking is for you to give Sue and RCG the courtesy of planning their event in peace.
You have my pledge to do so. The only reason this came up again was the lobbying of Dominique. If that ceases and we can hold our affiliate gathering in peace we will respect your request.
> Neither you nor I for time for this sniping so lets call it a day
Too true. But again I feel the need to correct your statements.
>In Atlantis the scumware discussions took place between affiliates and affiliate managers. This was the proper set up and I was happy to participate. I only wish you had the good sense to do the same at affcon and all this unpleasantry could have been avoided.
Louis. What is it that you don’t understand about your speaking issue…
When Sue and I met back in January, your name was the very FIRST on the speaker list. I gladly put you forward as an eloquent voice. Pick up the phone and ask Sue yourself. I was lax in getting the agenda together and we had not yet sent out the official invites to all concerned. Then, out of the blue, I get an email from you stating how upset you were, having not been considered to speak, and how much I would regret it. State the facts man! Don’t hide behind this Gator issue!
>The “competing” event was announced by me weeks later after you stubbornly refused to remove Gator from the event.
Utter nonsense. I never refused. I told you that I had no power to do so. It was entirely Sue’s call. Her show, her decision.
(Having said that, I thought it was a great opportunity to crucify Gator publicly!)
> There wasnt and isnt if you will reject Gator and scumware merchants and re-join affiliates in this crucial battle. I really believed you were with us, I dont know why you were compromised. Was Gator your idea (iCafma) or was this decision made by RCG?
What? Are you serious? You don’t think I am NOT fighting the predators. How in the world can you make this misleading statement to let your readers believe myself and/or iCAfma.org are turning a blind eye to predatory advertising? Please be a responsible forum keeper!
> Perhaps there is a huge misunderstanding that could be ironed out and both organizations work more closely in the future?
Louis, the only confusion has been in your head. You should have had the common sense to understand that we all against predators, and perhaps that RCG did not fully understand the implications of actually having the word “Gator” on the agenda, even though the intention was only to challenge them.
> You have my pledge to do so. The only reason this came up again was the lobbying of Dominique. If that ceases and we can hold our affiliate gathering in peace we will respect your request.
Thank you. Albeit I will state again, “Dominique” was not being lobbied for any other reason than to rescue some sort of face for the affiliate marketing industry. That would have included getting an authoritative group of GPWA ambassadors onto a very visible platform at GIGSE. Like I said, she would not even entertain my call. What an opportunity missed for GPWA!
Enough said. Both Sue and I are of the frame of mind that we wish GPWA well in whatever they plan to do in Montreal and thereafter. We’ll go off and do what we need to do, albeit at a different level. I’m sure both methods to eradicate the predators and advance casino affiliate marketing will be successful. Each to his/her own.
All the best,
Herby
Well now that we’ve worked out our frustrations perhaps we can get back to work?
Only one more item I am concerned about. You stated:
rescue some sort of face for the affiliate marketing industry
Is that your assesment of where the industry is?
Why has the affiliate marketing industry been defaced? Because we reject scumware? Because we are holding a scumware free meeting in the same town as the RCG show?
Why was Sue so adamant that a scumware merchant was indespensible at an affiliate event? Did you even try to persaude her that it really wasn’t in good taste to push affiliates together with an organziation that had been actively stealing from them simply for the sake of sensationalism?
I am not anywhere as irate about anything as either one of you two.
As far as I am concerned everything turned out for the better, and perhaps we can all work together on future events and make them true affiliate conferences. Affiliate managers for one would just love to see affiliates at these things.
That is the main reason the alternate event is so successful – it is geared towards affiliates, and managers want affiliates above all. The resounding chorus is: “we go where the affiliates go!”
What I truly do not understand is why it took so long to dismiss Gator. It took me a long time to organize this event, it is not something I have done before and I chose a highly unconventional way to do it. All the time I was trying to get this done I could have been easlily swayed by the removal of Gator.
Yet like clockwork it was removed just after I entered final commitments. That was not at all helpful. If it had been removed earlier it would have solved all kinds of problems.
As is, I am quite happy. This is by far going to be the most enjoyable event of it’s kind I ever attended – but then that is probably a given since I arranged it.
Everyone I talked to is really looking forward to it, and the number of affiliates who are turning out is unprecedented for these events.
Next year we can perhaps all work together to create a truly dynamic AFFCON, and this October we will have a giant spinoff of the smaller Montreal event. I expect up to 100 affiliates to be at that event, and every affiliate manager who is able will be there. I already have all kinds of commitments for this, from affiliates flying in from around the globe to every aff manager I have talked to (most of the active ones) to a great number of sponsors.
For the Montreal event we have so many sponsors that I had to turn them away. My advice : put it in the piggy bank for October. A point well taken by all.
I am really looking forward to this, and I have no bad feelings toward anyone. (except Gator
)Let the good times roll in Montreal, and let the networking begin!
Louis,
>rescue some sort of face for the affiliate marketing industry
>>Is that your assesment of where the industry is?I was referring to the fact that Sue had made a leap of faith to add on an entire day to GIGSE to help promote affiliate marketing in general.
What impression do you think she now has of an industry that thanked her by torpedoing her efforts?
>Why has the affiliate marketing industry been defaced? Because we reject scumware? Because we are holding a scumware free meeting in the same town as the RCG show?
No, not at all. I agree with you 100% percent that affiliates are being ripped off. I disagree with you that you had to air your grievances by attempting to scuttle a previously scheduled RCG event.
>Why was Sue so adamant that a scumware merchant was indespensible at an affiliate event? Did you even try to persaude her that it really wasn’t in good taste to push affiliates together with an organziation that had been actively stealing from them simply for the sake of sensationalism?
Sue and I discussed it at length. We decided to try a different tack and tackle the enemy in the open. If you had a problem with that, you should have been respectful and refrain from staging a competing event, in the same town and at the same time. Your prerogative of course to do that, but I fear it has tarnished the professional image of the GPWA as a result.
Louis, please understand me clearly and don’t imply otherwise with your rhetoric here and in other forums…. I, as an individual, affiliate and merchant alike …. am TOTALLY APPOSED to predatory marketing tactics. It’s the single biggest reason I started >> http://iAfma.org
Having stared the enemy in the face for several years now, I can clearly smell the diesel of the juggernaut that threatens to roll over the smaller, honest affiliates.
Does that mean we should capitulate to this evil. NEVER. “We shall fight them in the trenches….” as someone once said.
However, frothing at the mouth and getting all upset is only going to work for so long, then the juggernaut is going to roll right over the unhappy affiliate clan. (Look what happened to the smaller shops back in the 50s, 60s? ….. You may not recall, but I remember long lines of small merchants calling boycotts and walking around in circles crying foul against the supermarket juggernauts. All I see is large supermarkets now. At the end of the day the manufacturers put their wares on the shelves that were moving stock. Suppliers loved the little guy, but they cared for profits more. The little guys were left to die out. Look around, all you see is supermarkets…
Here’s a wake up call ….. Gator et al are not going to go away.
Do I want them there? NO. Should we stop them? YES!!!
I was done frothing at the mouth months ago. I have a different vision on how to help in this fight. Please respect my opinion as I do yours.
I sincerely hope you guys have a good gathering. I would love to be there and sink a few beers with you. However, I have elected to stand behind Sue and support RCG in their gracious effort to help promote affiliate marketing by placing it onto the center stage at GIGSE.
Have a beer for me.
Cheers,
Herby
Excuse me Herby,
The professor didn’t “stage an event”.
I called for a boycott, the GPWA approved it with a resounding majority.
Now I could have arranged for pickets at affcon, that would have been a whole lot more unpleasant for Sue.
But I didn’t, I organized an event for everyone to go who did not want to be in a room with Gator.
I had no idea it would grow into such a full blown affair. It did so by popular demand.
I don’t know what you are trying to accomplish with these posts.
What’s done is done. The rational thing to do is to lay a better foundation for next year.
Dominique,
I will have little need to post here, would it not be for Louis making statements which are not true. He cannot go around insinuating that I support predatory advertising. Blatantly not true.
Likewise, I should not do the same. Therefore it appears I should give you the credit for calling the boycott, detracting from an existing event, and alienating the producers of GIGSE, who may have been very helpful in the long term in fighting predatory advertising.
As I said in my last post. All the best with your gathering. I sincerely wish I could be there. I know a ton of folks who are going. However, I have elected to stand behind Sue and GIGSE and see the day through.
Cheers,
Herby
Herby,
I have in no way detracted from GIGSE, as a matter of fact, I have been attracting additional people who will be attending GIGSE.
All I did was to give people who did not want to be in a room with Gator a place to go instead. The fact that people took to the idea the way they did may be something to consider in future affiliate conferences – why did the event take off the way it did. It is offering something affcon isn’t.
I have also been very nice and pointed out possible cooperation. I also conversed with Sue and gave alternatives serious thought after Sue contacted me. It was just too late.
When all is said and done, the only problem was Gator. Without that , it would have never occurred to me to put on an alternate event. I would have been happily attending affcon and taking active part in discussions.
You need to take some responsibility for what happened. Sue had a very long time to remove Gator. She had every opportunity to change this around. I am not sure at all that I understand her motivation. The conference was to be for affiliate managers, who go to these things because they want to meet affiliates. But, you put on the one thing that would really make affiliates angry.
The affiliates say so, inform you. Slowly start organizing an alternate event – nothing.
I don’t see the rational of this. Maybe Gator was paying a huge sum? Maybe there are some Gator oriented people who are sponsoring in the back ground?
I don’t know, I can only speculate what might have been a strong enough motivator to stick this out with Gator for so long.
Or maybe it was just underestimating the strength affiliates have.
Because, Herby, affiliates are neither stupid nor weak.
Quite the opposite.
Hi Lou, Herby and Dom…
have been laying low lately.. but came here and read this…
Sorry, but I do not want to insult anybody personally… but really need to say one thing.. maybe everybody should take a step back – take a few breathes and reread each others posts again… It is a circle of statements where everybody agrees with each other, yet are fighting about it :bigsmile:
I really hope that this all settles down soon… decisions have been made and hopefully something good will come of them.
We are all in the same battle – opinions of how to fight it merely differ…
My opinions (For what they are worth)
Dom – Take Herby’s call and hear him out – (You may be surprised at what he has to say)
Herby – Lou is an affiliate that is seriously pissed at what has happened to us – (Understand his anger and point of view)
Lou – Herby is on our side – (His methods are simply different to what you may be used to)Ok – before you all blow up at me 😎 – these are simply opinions from a person that has not kept up with the boards of late and I have simply responded to this one after the lengthy “Agreement-Argument” thread here
(Probably makes no sense what so ever)Hope you guys are all well…
Cheers
Kevin (Peralis)
http://www.reviewed-casinos.comKevin,
Point taken and totally agreed with.
The predators are laughing at all this “in-fighting”. Not only at us, but all the way to the bank.
In World War II, not all the generals of the Allied forces agreed on how to fight the battles. Many of them had big egos. All of them had the same goal. Defeat the enemy.
At the end of the day, they all respected each other, and that is what we should do here and elsewhere. The only time you shall see me respond here, is when false statements are made. I totally feel the pain of the robbed affiliates. I am losing money too. When I am accused of pandering to predators, I take offence. Big time.
Just as much as the GPWA have the right to follow a certain agenda, other associations should be left in peace to do the same. If GIGSE, iCAfma.org or any other group wish to fight the battle by bringing the enemy out into the open for public execution, then we’d appreciate the space to do it in.
The members of GPWA have every right to hold their own events, but to do it blatantly, on the very same day as another established event such as GIGSE/AffCon, is totally unprofessional and unfair towards River City Group.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Sue Schneider has just experienced some predatory activity in the conferencing industry.
Hopefully this sad episode will not happen ever again. The affiliate marketing industry is struggling as it is. We could have done without alienating the River City Group and GIGSE.
Yes, I fully understand that the affiliates are out of pocket, but there are better ways to tackle the problem of predatory advertising. Like I said, the Gator is back in the swamp now, just when we had a chance to lure the sucker out … and stamp all over him.
Cheers,
Herby
