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Well I’m not sure why the other thread was closed (many affiliates are also questioning this and think it’s an affiliate issue on the casinomeister thread), but the conspiracy of silence has finally ended. I’ve contacted Andrew Beveridge of eCOGRA three times with no reply. Affiliates who have contacted customer support have been asked to contact their affiliate managers and vice vers. No one would say when the term was added and it is even an eCOGRA *requirement* that terms are time stamped with the last change date (which didn’t seem to stop eCOGRA ruling in the casino’s favour). I also emailed Cobus saying twice in the last couple of weeks explaining I needed this information to provide to the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority (GRA) but had no reply (GRA were keen that I file an official complaint), although now he is out of office.
It turns out that without the GRA involvement nothing would have been disclosed for a lot longer. What is damning is that they even tried to get out of paying the player when he was told the term was added after he finished playing at the casinos.
Quote:Hi there XXXXX,Thank you for emailing Belle Rock Entertainment.
XXXXX, we can confirm that the official change was made in the terms and conditions on the 19th of December 2007, however kindly note the following clause in our terms and conditions at the Casino:
8.1.1. The Casino may, without notice to you, amend, alter, delete, interlineate or add to (“Changes”) these Terms and Conditions, the promotion or competition-specific Terms and Conditions or Rules of Play at any time whatsoever.
8.1.2. These Changes shall become effective, and you shall be bound by these Changes, immediately upon their posting on the Casino Website.
8.1.3. You agree to regularly review these Terms and Conditions, promotion or competition-specific Terms and Conditions and the Rules of Play regularly in order to assess whether any Changes have been made.
You are welcome to access the full terms and conditions from the following link:
http://www.jackpotcity.com/casino/en…_Us/terms.aspx
Therefore as the above information, we will not be paying out your winnings as per clause 5.6 in our terms and conditions at the Casino.
They then backtrack yet again and try to claim an earlier date. I hope they realise this date will be verifiable in due course.
Quote:Hi All,I am embarrassed to have to make this post, and I owe apologies to a number of people. This whole situation seems to be riddled with communication errors. In dealing with a number of issues with our lawyers who drafted and maintain our terms and conditions, I confused the dates given to me and in haste quoted that this term had been added in 2004. It turns out that it was actually added in December 2007, although not on the date quoted by Scrabble73. I am not sure why she was given that date because the term was actually published on the 5th of December and as such we were within our rights to take the action we had taken.
Because of the communication errors and the confusion caused we have decided to honor Scrabble73’s withdrawal as a gesture of goodwill, but confirm that she was still in violation of term 5.6.
Best regards,
Belle Rock
After all the effort to get out of paying the player, even when they said the term was added afterwards, I’m still not sure what date it was added. I’m more inclined to believe the later date.
What is certain is that affiliates were never made aware and some are complaining about this at Casinomeister. Also, this term is obviously arbitrarily enforced if they don’t know when it was added (Shane claimed this too) and they even thought it was added in 2004 at some point (from the customer service manager at Bellerock and poster at Casinomeister- I was also given this year at first)! So even if the term is legally valid (which is very doubtful) this would invalidate it if it is arbitrarily enforced. It’s completely ridiculous.
So is this Bellerock’s real policy (as stated in the terms) or do they only apply this on ‘special’ occasions (as stated by Shane here)?
Oy vey, here we go again and now you want to trash eCogra at the same time. Sirius I will this leave thread open over the weekend and lets see how many REAL affiliates share your fervor about this issue.
I know there are four or five people who really arent affiliates who continually bray like donkeys and condemn every casino and every group online. They rail against eCogra, they condemn CAP and GPWA and many of us in the business individually. They find every possible fault with every possible casino and for reasons unknown they have maintained this negative agenda for years.
Honestly if there is nothing but negativity in online gaming and they dont enjoy the products and casinos being offered why in heavans name do they NOT move on and allow the rest of us who have a positive experience to do what we do in peace and without this constant hail of stones from the peanut gallery?
Have a good weekend and if all of this is so unbearable consider fishing (my favorite passtime) or a good game of golf. :hattip:
Sirius, I don’t know.
All I know is that I get no player complaints about that group and hence my visitors on my site are well taken care of at Belle Rock. That is what my job is, to take good care of my visitors. It keeps me busy enough for sure.
Perhaps you need to publish all this on your website so your visitors know what you think. That’s what your website is there for, to serve your visitors.
We deal with Referback here, not with Belle Rock.
If you want to post and get an answer from Belle Rock you have to post at Meister.
Why are you continuing to harp on this? Obviously it is leading no place.
I am starting to think you have some private beef and agenda here.
Sirius I just want to clarify in my mini rant above I wasnt refering specifically to you. I was refering to a very small, but very vocal cadre of haters who tend to fan any flames they can find. My thinking was they may be leading you to believe this issue has traction with the majority of affiliates when it doesnt.
I have been posting on casino message boards since 1999 (starting on winneronline) and I’ve always posted the same way. I’ve uncovered rigged casinos and lots of injustices. If you want to search my posts at Casinomeister you can (I can’t even do that myself) and also winneronline.
This is obviously an affliate issue but people don’t seem to realise it and the facts I’m stating should speak for themselves. Although I’ve been emailing eCOGRA without reply (my emails didn’t bounce) at least it seems they have been listening since the terms are now dated which is something I mentioned in the email as it’s a requirement. They are dated yesterday which to me seems like a ploy to again not reveal when 5.6 was added since the new terms seem superfluous at best (found by comparing the terms as the changes are not indicated). You can see the three new terms on the winneronline thread but one they added seemed to contradict others : “1.1.8.You may not open and maintain more than one account at any point in time.” since it will mean only one account across the group and the others are also slightly strange.
I’ve already asked Dominique for an opinion about my other issues with Referback so I don’t know why she is stating that she’s ‘starting to think you have some private beef and agenda here’ when I know she knows more than she’s letting on as I have informed her of problems which are unresolved (which wasn’t replied to). That is nothing to do with this complaint and anyone should realise this. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise.
Remember, when people search for BelleRock they find my site. Even that recent player who lost 30k there did the same thing after a google search and never returned. I now have a warning on those same pages saying they may soon be blacklisted due to the player issues. This is nothing to do with any other issues. I could have been sending bellerock lots of highly qualified traffic like I have done in previous months. Now they are not getting the clicks due to the warning. If I was a greedy affiliate I would not care about the player issues would I?
So of course I’m a real affiliate, you can ask Referback about that since my players there have deposited and wagered millions. My site is over 5 years old and I have a whole network of related watchdog sites now.
If your players have deposited and wagered millions at Referback clients then they must enjoy the casinos. Again if your players deposited millions at Referback client casinos then you as a real affiliate earned hundreds of thousands of dollars, so one would think you would have a much kinder view of the group.
I have been playing at Riverbelle and Lucky Nugget since 1999 and I have always been impressed with their professionalism and care for me as a player.
I too have earned hundreds of thousands with the Referback clients over the years, but I APPRECIATE that partnership and would not make it an ongoing campaign to drone on and on about a single bonus issue on every forum that would allow me to do so.
At the end of the day, as Dom pointed out, your issue is with a client casino of Referback; Bellerock. Its appropiate to discuss this for as long as you like at player communities such as Casinomeister.
As I said you get one more crack at this here. Then please join us in other conversations. If you are a real affiliate dont you have anything else to discuss with members of CAP then this one issue?
Sirius, BelleRock is a highly overvalued junkyard but it does not make sense any longer to discuss this matter in this forum, as I am not sure what you want to achieve with it? I am definetely interested in the story but you should write about it elsewhere.
Personally I, just like you, believe that affiliates need to understand what players think about the casinos they promote, but for most it is more important how the affiliate program works and performs.
ReferBack seems to be doing a good job as an affiliate program, so most affiliates are satisfied. Your website is there to protect and inform players, so would not it be much better to report about this matter on your own website and perhaps post a link over here, so everyone can follow up?I would definitely like a link to the website so I can follow your writings there.
