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My story:
I had made several deposits at Cirrus Casino and lost them all and thus had never needed the magic withdrawal section of the cashier.
Then I hit a lucky patch – With a $100 deposit, by playing Blackjack and occasionly slots, I wormed my way up to $800 and, pleased with my win, requested a withdrawal.
So, the next day dawned and I was bored and so my gambling orientated mind persuaded me to cancel my withdrawal and play for more money. My luck continued and I built up to an impressive $2000. Again, resolute and pleased with my new Xmas funds, I withdrew this $2K. :3eyes:
I again grew bored and itching for more I cancelled it yet again, continued to play Blackjack and reached the majestic $10,000 figure :3eyes::tongue:- you can see the reason for why I usually don’t need the withdrawal section!
However this time, on the 22nd November 2007, I adamantly withdrew my $10K and have not touched it since and do not intend to.
Then a few days on enquiring why my withdrawal was taking so long, I was informed that:
David: Withdrawals for regular players take between 7-10 business days to be approved. Since you are an advanced player in the casino, meaning that you do not play for recreational purposes like most players do, other players have a higher payout priority. Your withdrawal has not been approved for this reason.
David: Also, we will not approve all the amount at once, it is very probable that we will approve payments of $1,000 at a time approximately every month
!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :madat:
So after years of losing at Casino’s real and virtual, I hit a consistent lucky streak and am informed that my payout will be staggered and I will only have recieved the full amount in almost ONE YEAR.
The chat host said that I am an ‘advanced’ BlackJack player not a recreational player and thus they have assigned me low priority, saying that, and I quote:
David: You have advanced skills playing Black Jack
David: That is more than luck. :tooconfusThere are many things wrong with the aforementioned. I am a student with a part time job and occasionally I have a flutter – in the poker rooms, in the casino, on online casino’s or at the races or on the footy or wherever. So when did I suddenly become an ADVANCED BLACKJACK PLAYER!?!?! I follow a basic strategy that I have learned from years of losing. Also, if I were not playing for recreational purposes then I assume they are saying I make an income from blackjack. I can confirm that this is also untrue – I cannot often afford to gamble full stop so the idea that I make a living off it is laughable.
As far as I know, you cannot get an ‘edge’ over the house in an online casino and if I could then I would have taken them for millions not 10K. It seems to me they are punsihing me for having had a lucky streak and won some money for once – ISN’T THIS SUPPOSED TO BE POSSIBLE IN CASINO’S?
After consulting with experts to confirm that you cannot get an edge over an online casino at Blackjack, I contacted them again…here is the transcript:
nhalks: Hello. I am enquiring regarding the status that was assigned my account (advanced player) due to the fact I was told that I have advanced skills at blackjack that exceeded just luck, adding that I procured an edge because I know the game so well. I knew this was untrue because I know very little about blackjack. I thought maybe it was possible to gain the edge and that you thought i’d exercised an unfair advantage.
nhalks: However, having spoken to several gambling experts at CAP I have learned that it is impossible to gain an advantage over an online casino when playing Blackjack – everybody assured me that I could not possibly have done anything to tip the advantage in my favour.
nhalks: In light of this, I urge you to reconsider my status – I am an honest player and fully risked my own money and I believe I should be treated as such.
David: As I told you the last time we spoke, your player status will not be changed. I will not even discuss this again with you. What you are saying about what “experts” say is not true, and I do not know where did you get this from.
I believe the above comment speaks for itself.
This is not how a casino should treat an honest player/customer.
Thanks for listeningNicholas Halksworth
hey nicholas,
that really sucks! i can feel your pain as a player. you managed to hit one of those joints that are not recommended for homosapiens.
imho, you can try approaching this through casinomeister site by pitching some kind of a bitch. but he is not a fan of cirrus casino either.
overall, this sucks full stop. but not much that can be done either. they are a bunch of money hungry wankers as it shows from your story. hopefully they won’t be lasting long…they are even performing some black seo tricks…try googling for cirrus casino scam, or cirrus casino fraud. all top results actually advertise cirrus casino…
anyways, good luck in your endeavour!
ps.
I was advised to enlist the help of The Professor and thus I have sent him a message telling him of my problem.
I will update you with the results of this when he gets back to me…
Hi Nhalks,
I understand your frustration.
The issue here is that it is possible to gain an edge over the casino due to the bonuses online casino’s offer and which you forgot to mention you had accepted (which is why some people would say we have the advantage when the casinos don’t have an advantage thanks to the bonuses you took).
Some players, I’m not saying you are one, come to an online casino, accept a bonus and play Blackjack with a strategy. Since playing strategic BJ has such a small edge, it is easy to grind through some playthrough and cash out. Basically it is possible to gain a mathematical edge with a bonus, which is why some people dedicate themselves to the profession of “bonus whoring”. These people don’t play for recreational purposes and they generally find harsh rules like these being applied to them since casinos (both online and off) do not want the business of people like this.
I can see you have been lumped into this category based on many different factors (again, I’m not saying they are right).
In any Vegas casino if you are deemed an advanced player (card counting for example) they would treat you with the same disregard.
I sincerely do apologize for your negative experience and I will push to make sure your payout goes out sooner.
Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
GamblingWages Affiliate Manager@GamblingWages 147718 wrote:
The issue here is that it is possible to gain an edge over the casino due to the bonuses online casino’s offer and which you forgot to mention you had accepted (which is why some people would say we have the advantage when the casinos don’t have an advantage thanks to the bonuses you took).
Don’t give the DAMNED bonuses then!!!! It is the casino’s idiotic fault!
GamblingWages wrote:Some players, I’m not saying you are one, come to an online casino, accept a bonus and play Blackjack with a strategy.Of course you would prefer we all play like idiots and lose our money but give me a damn break here. So, it looks like you are saying that anyone who appears to win by playing BJ has a strategy (oh the fucking outrage of it all!) and should be considered a bonus-whore. Would YOU play BJ or any other game without a strategy?????
C’mon…. Does this only piss ME off?????
Hi Kwblue,
I understand your frustration. However, please keep in mind it is standard for online casinos to offer bonuses. I can’t imagine one that can stay in competition without offering a bonus.
About everyone playing and winning on blackjack being qualified as a bonus abuser this is not true. The player admitted using a blackjack strategy. He is a young man that just joined the casino, used a bonus that played with close to perfect strategy gives him a considerable edge over the casino, won big and withdrew. With this alone most profiling will start qualifying him as an advanced player.
However, I never called him an advanced player and much less a bonus whore, nor would I. I was merely explaining to him that there are people who take online gambling as something more then recreational, and those people are not treated well (he seemed to be unaware of this). Just like a card counter won’t be treated well in Vegas. Winning alone doesn’t qualify you as an advanced player, but the way you win, is what will give you that qualification.
I go to the local casinos on a semi-regular basis. I generally use a bonus and play with some strategy, but not a mathematically calculated one. When I go to the casino I go for fun, I hope to win money, but I play to have fun. I don’t go calculating everything to get an edge (card counting, perfect strategy). Because I know that is not the spirit of the game and if I abuse it, I will be thrown out, like I should be, both here, in Vegas and in any other casino around the globe.
With all this said, I am not discussing whether he is or isn’t an advanced player. He has been lumped into this category of advanced players by the casino. Right or wrong, I am trying to help him. But don’t dismiss the fact that online casinos are constantly battling against Bonus Abuse and rules like this one are an example of the controls in place to restrict this activity.
Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
GamblingWages Affiliate ManagerThanks for the explanation, Nicholas.
My main problem is that it is pretty much impossible to ‘count cards’ in RTG Casinos since the number of decks can be configured on the software end of things. So – any strategy can only be basic strategy (i.e., playing the right cards at the right time). And if that is frowned upon at Cirrus, then nobody should ever play BJ there.
It is pretty simple, even as a casual player, to have the cards you should play based upon your hand and the dealer’s hand memorized. That is not a sin and Vegas would not throw a player out of their casinos for this either.
yes, card counters will likely be ejected after long hours of watching their play, but as I mentioned before… you could have any number of decks in your ‘shoe’.
Dear Nicolas and others
I have posted in the GW forum but have noticed the posts here and thus will respond here also.
Nicolas, you say I admitted to using a strategy, what I actually said was that I have picked up a strategy from times of losing. After much research, I cannot believe now that I did not even use one of the strategy’s that I have now found online. My strategy consisted of hitting with less than 16 when the dealer showed a 10, standing when the dealer has a 6 or less and I have more than 11, and always doubling with 10 and 11 – ask me of anything else and my knowledge is non-existent. For eg. what should you do with regards to insurance against an Ace?- As my account history will show I just never take it, is this a bad move? – thinking of it now as a 10 is the most likely card then maybe I should take the insurance every time? I dunno I was drunk and I just played how I fancied – though now I realised I should have followed a proper strategy.
I also play for fun, but I also hope to win money, I wish I could profess to having made ‘mathematically calculated’ bets but unfortunately I am a politics student not a mathematics student.
I do understand the issuance of bonuses – the only way a casino can stand out these days is by offering a good bonus offer. Of course these bonuses bring risks, a bonus hunter can gain a slight edge over a casino by using one – but this is a risk a casino must take and there should not be an issue when someone wins after having used one.
However, I urge you to stop referring to bonus abuse in my case. I deposited $100 with a $100 no restrictions no max cash out bonus. However, I instantly made relatively large bets (at least $10, often $25) and when I had made more money I was sometimes making $400 bets, this surely makes me exempt from ‘bonus whore’ classification. Furthermore, as my winnings are $10,000 then surely the original $100 bonus is completely irrelevant.
In your post, you seem to compare me to a card counter! I only wish this was true but unfortunately I am not. Nor do I indulge or am capable of any behaviour that is equivalent to that in the online world.
I have the uttermost respect for vigilance against bonus abusers – I am a happy go lucky gambler that does not like the fact that someone could mathematically get a better deal than me. However, as I have mentioned in my GW post but will repeat here for clarity, my account history shows that I am not a Bonus Abuser…
I deposited $100 with the ‘SHOTGUN’ 100% match up, no restrictions, no max cash out bonus with a 50x playthrough.
Out of the numerous promotional bonuses that I was emailed, I chose the aforementioned one precisely because it had no max cash out and I could play my favourite game, Blackjack. There were numerous better percentage bonuses available which I am sure would have appealed more to a bonus whore.
I bet fast and loose from the outset, making $10, $20, $50 bets on Blackjack and additioanlly playing some slots.
Thanking my lucky stars, I made it to $800 and withdrew.
I then cancelled my withdrawal, gambled more and made bigger bets, eventually ending up with a $2000 bankroll and again withdrew.
I still hadn’t had enough and cancelled the withdrawal again and played more blackjack and slots – reaching $4000!!
If this wasn’t enough (bare in mind I am a student and would lick a man’s shoe for a free pint – I really would!) I demonstrated the fact I am a pure gambler even more by again cancelling my deposit and this time making bets of up to $400, until I finally reached $10,000.
Now, gambler or not, I had to withdraw and stick with it this time, you cannot blame me for that, this will pay off a few credit cards!
My main point is that I am evidently not, by any measures, a bonus whore and thus should not be treated as such. Therefore I believe I should recieve my payout as any other player would, which I assume is promptly and in a lump sum.
Again, thanks for your involvement in this issue.
Yours Faithfully
Nicholas Halksworth
nhalksNhalks, I am glad to hear your matter is being looked into and am hoping to see it fairly resolved as soon as possible. I am also glad to report that I am currently in contact with Nicolas, who will handle my dispute from now on.
I will update visitors of CAP forum once there is an update.Tribun, yes I think it looks now that Nicolas has realised that I am by no means an ‘advanced player’ or bonus whore and so hopefully I should get my money in a lump sum as any other player would (Although I am yet to be told anything).
I’m glad to hear that your issue is being looked into also and good luck with that, I too will keep a daily update on the status of my payout going in this thread.
@GamblingWages 147721 wrote:
Hi Kwblue,
I understand your frustration. However, please keep in mind it is standard for online casinos to offer bonuses. I can’t imagine one that can stay in competition without offering a bonus.
About everyone playing and winning on blackjack being qualified as a bonus abuser this is not true. The player admitted using a blackjack strategy. He is a young man that just joined the casino, used a bonus that played with close to perfect strategy gives him a considerable edge over the casino, won big and withdrew. With this alone most profiling will start qualifying him as an advanced player.
However, I never called him an advanced player and much less a bonus whore, nor would I. I was merely explaining to him that there are people who take online gambling as something more then recreational, and those people are not treated well (he seemed to be unaware of this). Just like a card counter won’t be treated well in Vegas. Winning alone doesn’t qualify you as an advanced player, but the way you win, is what will give you that qualification.
I go to the local casinos on a semi-regular basis. I generally use a bonus and play with some strategy, but not a mathematically calculated one. When I go to the casino I go for fun, I hope to win money, but I play to have fun. I don’t go calculating everything to get an edge (card counting, perfect strategy). Because I know that is not the spirit of the game and if I abuse it, I will be thrown out, like I should be, both here, in Vegas and in any other casino around the globe.
With all this said, I am not discussing whether he is or isn’t an advanced player. He has been lumped into this category of advanced players by the casino. Right or wrong, I am trying to help him. But don’t dismiss the fact that online casinos are constantly battling against Bonus Abuse and rules like this one are an example of the controls in place to restrict this activity.
Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
GamblingWages Affiliate Managerthen why do all casino gift shops sell blackjack strategy cards , telling you when to hit and when to stand , and people use them at the table . Are all these people playing optimal strategy and should be thrown out.
As for gambling to have fun , i have never met a gambler who doesnt play to win , it is bullshit that someone plays to have fun , show me one person besides yourself that only plays for fun and does not care if they lose . Remember gamblig is only fun if you win .
Then another thing you only gave him a $100 bonus , he won 10K , i can understand if you gave him a 10k bonus and he grinded it out by opposit betting on roulette ,
Some one turning 200 into 10k had an incredible run of cards , this is ot bonus abuse ,
The player admitted using a blackjack strategy. He is a young man that just joined the casino, used a bonus that played with close to perfect strategy gives him a considerable edge over the casino, won big and withdrew. With this alone most profiling will start qualifying him as an advanced player.
I can’t believe I am reading this! Did i get that right? That a player who uses a “perfect strategy” is breaking the rules? This is exactly the type of thing that gives online casino gambling a bad name.
If the game is a proper game, it will still have a house edge and no strategy can beat that, merely minimise it. If a strategy can beat the house edge, with or without the help of a bonus,then there is something wrong at the casino end, not the player end and he should be paid properly and on time.
In regards to how “Vegas casinos” approach this, sure they may ask a player to leave their casino but they will pay him first if he hasn’t cheated – and using a strategy isn’t cheating. Every casino has the right to refuse a player for any reason as far as I am aware, but if they accept one, and one who has not acted fraudulently of dishonestly, they honour their terms and pay him before they lock him out.
Cirrus have a terrible reputation among players (and why on earth affiliates promote them I really don’t know) but if they want to try and change for the better then they should start by treating the player fairly at the very least.
So was this player paid in the end? I don’t think it’s worth bothering with all the explanations or justifications for the way of playing as it looks a bit ridiculous as it’s not even the point. A bonus hunter could easily have played the same way as could a normal gambler since it’s not possible to tell. Basically, if you play at these blacklisted sites you could end up waiting years to get paid.
So was this player paid in the end?
Most likely not.
Cirrus, Virtual & Co. do not pay anyone unless they have had a good day and decide to honor some payout requests. Just like me myself, there are tons of other players who have been waiting for their money from them for years.
It is honestly a shame that this company is being “accredited” here, as the affiliates are the ones that keep their foul money-sucking system going!Tribun, have you ever heard the saying “money talks”. You only get certified if you pay the monthly fee.
